Audi UK trying to charge me for private parking tickets.

fakesheikh

Hi All,

Wondering if you knowledgable people could help me out a bit.

Had a courtesy car from Audi in September, recieved 4 parking tickets on it from a private firm. I figured I'd wait for them to arrive on my doorstep and then simply ignore them as I had done a few times before.

However 6 months later I get a phone call from my Audi dealer demanding £350 as payment for parking tickets. Saying that they paid them before the charges escalated.

My arguement with him was that, as the driver I was liable and not Audi UK and that they should have forwarded the said parking tickets onto me.

He asked that I write him an e-mail so he could forward it onto his superiors. Now I don't want to shoot myself in the foot by saying anything that may damage my case. So was wondering if you geniuses could help me out.

It's not a case of worming out of paying parking tickets, It's more the principle. Audi should have forwarded the tickets onto me and not simply just paid them.

Thanks in advance.

peter_the_piper

Look at their terms and conditions of hire. Chances are they will shoot themselves in the foot.

fakesheikh

Thanks for the prompt response, I think i'll firstly email requesting a copy of their terms and conditions.

Silly of me to not have done so already.

Thanks again.

The_Slithy_Tove

fakesheikh wrote: »

My arguement with him was that, as the driver I was liable and not Audi UK and that they should have forwarded the said parking tickets onto me.

You are right. Assuming this is England or Wales, they could easily have discharged their responsibility by naming you as the driver in response to the Notices to Keeper. As they didn't, the charges fell upon them. It is their problem, not yours.


This is dependent on whatever was in the agreement (if any) that you signed when you took the courtesy car. Do you have it still? Assuming it didn't make you responsible for such tickets (and I don't mean council tickets etc) then they have no come back. If the agreement did make you responsible, then they can hardly complain if they never allowed you to handle them.


In responding to Audi you should demand that they tell you the basis on which they think you are responsible, i.e. point to the piece of paper which says so.


BTW, even if you did get told, you should NOT ignore them. That's old advice.

HO87

Courtesy car t's and c's are often somewhat thin. That aside the fact remains that Audi clearly didn't read the paperwork and had they done so they could simply have named the hirer/borrower and completely fulfilled their responsibilities. I'd be tempted to suggest to them that they have been the masters of their own downfall and perhaps they might like to stew in their own juice. So to speak.

fakesheikh

You guys are awesome. Been a lurker for ages, glad to have finally registered.

SevenTowers

Read the excellent thread below, similar circumstances with a hire vehicle from Sixt

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=62531

However, it is Pre-POFA so will need to be adapted as per The Slithy Tove's comment about responsibility.

Half_way

fakesheikh wrote: »

Thanks for the prompt response, I think i'll firstly email requesting a copy of their terms and conditions.

Silly of me to not have done so already.

Thanks again.

do you have a copy of the Terms? in theory it should be on some paperwork you received when you signed for the courtesy car.

The wording of the terms is important and in most cases it usually mentions that the driver is responsible for penalties fines etc a private parking charge is none of those.

HO87

Half_way wrote: »

do you have a copy of the Terms? in theory it should be on some paperwork you received when you signed for the courtesy car.

The wording of the terms is important and in most cases it usually mentions that the driver is responsible for penalties fines etc a private parking charge is none of those.

Correct. However, this does not get away from the fact that (presumably) Audi will have been served with a Notice to Keeper/Hirer and had the opportunity to divest themselves of all responsibility. For whatever reason they have chosen not to do so - and, it seems, have repeated that on more than one occasion. By paying the invoices - which they need not have done - they have not only stymied themselves but have also prevented the OP from exercising his right to appeal.

As has been discussed on numerous occasions parties have a duty to mitigate their losses but Audi have failed to do so. On the basis of the demand they have now passed to the OP it would appear that they intend to rely upon the "hirer is responsible for penalties" clause to cover their own ignorance/mistakes/inefficiency/bloody-mindedness rather than take reasonable steps to prevent unnecessary loss.

This is directly analogous to the PPC whose attendant watches a motorist pull up and then walk out of the car park and then issues a PCN rather than warning the motorist that he is breaching the t's and c's. The case of Ibbotson made it abundantly clear that in such situations it is iniquitous to expect someone to make good your own failings.

I suggest the OP - without accepting any responsibility - asks Audi to supply him with copies of all the paperwork they have received. I suspect that will demonstrate how inadequate their handling of the situation has been.

Umkomaas

fakesheikh wrote: »

Hi All,

Wondering if you knowledgable people could help me out a bit.

Had a courtesy car from Audi in September, recieved 4 parking tickets on it from a private firm. I figured I'd wait for them to arrive on my doorstep and then simply ignore them as I had done a few times before.

However 6 months later I get a phone call from my Audi dealer demanding £350 as payment for parking tickets. Saying that they paid them before the charges escalated.

My arguement with him was that, as the driver I was liable and not Audi UK and that they should have forwarded the said parking tickets onto me.

He asked that I write him an e-mail so he could forward it onto his superiors. Now I don't want to shoot myself in the foot by saying anything that may damage my case. So was wondering if you geniuses could help me out.

It's not a case of worming out of paying parking tickets, It's more the principle. Audi should have forwarded the tickets onto me and not simply just paid them.

Thanks in advance.

While we will try to help you sort this out, how did you manage to get 4 parking tickets in such a short space of time?

Do you know who the PPC was/were?

fakesheikh

This is a draft e-mail I plan on sending Audi, can anyone help me on this?

Thanks


RE: Parking Ticket Charges
To Whom It May Concern,
In response to your previous phone call, I would like to stress a few points which I feel are completely unfair.
Firstly I would like to request a copy of all paperwork associated with the said charges.
Secondly, although not having a copy of your terms and conditions to hand, I can imagine they either do not make me responsible for tickets, in which case the driver of the vehicle is not liable.
Or they do make the driver responsible, in which case Audi UK had ample opportunity to discharge their responsibility by naming the driver of the vehicle. By not doing so Audi UK have also prevented the driver from exercising their right to appeal.
Thirdly, in light of this demand it would seem that you aim to rely upon a clause in your terms and conditions make the hirer responsible for penalties. It would appear that Audi UK intend to rely upon the "hirer is responsible for penalties" clause to cover their own ignorance rather than take reasonable steps to prevent unnecessary loss.

The case of Ibbotson made it abundantly clear that in such situations it is iniquitous to expect someone to make good your own failings.

In light of the above, I deny the debt. Should you wish to take this matter further I would like to request paperwork of all the said charges.

Yours Sincerely