We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.

This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.

Debate House Prices


In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non MoneySaving matters are no longer permitted. This includes wider debates about general house prices, the economy and politics. As a result, we have taken the decision to keep this board permanently closed, but it remains viewable for users who may find some useful information in it. Thank you for your understanding.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!

Uk 1960'S Vs 2000'S

12357

Comments

  • wotsthat
    wotsthat Posts: 11,325 Forumite
    ukcarper wrote: »
    It wouldn't but it would reduce the housing benefit bill in the long term.

    Wouldn't just reducing housing benefit have exactly the same effect with much less hassle?

    Housing benefit is entirely arbitrary in allocation designed to provide people with houses that they wouldn't otherwise be able to afford but the state has decided they should have.

    It would seem entirely normal a few years ago for people to share houses to reduce housing costs. Who's to say HB is at the correct level - it might just be exacerbating the current shortage of housing.
  • cells
    cells Posts: 5,246 Forumite
    wotsthat wrote: »
    Wouldn't just reducing housing benefit have exactly the same effect with much less hassle?

    Housing benefit is entirely arbitrary in allocation designed to provide people with houses that they wouldn't otherwise be able to afford but the state has decided they should have.

    It would seem entirely normal a few years ago for people to share houses to reduce housing costs. Who's to say HB is at the correct level - it might just be exacerbating the current shortage of housing.


    Because we don't want the people of this country to live like cattle

    The solution to a shortage of homes is to build more, not to play accounting tricks or to force multiple families to share a house.
  • cells
    cells Posts: 5,246 Forumite
    edited 12 February 2014 at 10:08AM
    double post
  • cells
    cells Posts: 5,246 Forumite
    ukcarper wrote: »
    It wouldn't but it would reduce the housing benefit bill in the long term.

    How

    Private rented homes are lived in more densely than council homes

    Say the government baught 3 million privately rented homes and called them council homes instead. First some 8 million people would be vacated from the PR and the government would then have 3 million homes but could only put 7 million people into them

    you have just put 1 million under bridges and on park benches

    The private rental sector is growing exactly because there are too few homes
  • Generali
    Generali Posts: 36,411 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    cells wrote: »
    The private rental sector is growing exactly because there are too few homes

    Isn't this just shuffling people amongst the same homes.

    BTL didn't reduce the housing capacity of the UK, it just meant more people rented and fewer bought.

    Right to buy led to fewer renters and more owners.

    Neither thing changed the total capacity of the UK's housing stock.
  • wotsthat
    wotsthat Posts: 11,325 Forumite
    cells wrote: »
    Because we don't want the people of this country to live like cattle

    I don't either - is HB so perfectly balanced that reductions would lead to people living like cattle?
    cells wrote: »
    The solution to a shortage of homes is to build more, not to play accounting tricks or to force multiple families to share a house.

    It's not an accounting trick to suggest that increasing housing efficiency could also play a part.
  • ukcarper
    ukcarper Posts: 17,337 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    cells wrote: »
    How

    Private rented homes are lived in more densely than council homes

    Say the government baught 3 million privately rented homes and called them council homes instead. First some 8 million people would be vacated from the PR and the government would then have 3 million homes but could only put 7 million people into them

    you have just put 1 million under bridges and on park benches

    The private rental sector is growing exactly because there are too few homes


    Because people claiming LHA are allocated property on the size of family if those properties or similar size properties were bought by government there would be no difference in occupancy levels.
  • Linton
    Linton Posts: 18,350 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Hung up my suit!
    Generali wrote: »
    Isn't this just shuffling people amongst the same homes.

    BTL didn't reduce the housing capacity of the UK, it just meant more people rented and fewer bought.

    Right to buy led to fewer renters and more owners.

    Neither thing changed the total capacity of the UK's housing stock.

    Surely BTL increased the available housing capacity. Normally, people dont rent houses far bigger than they need. They are also happier to share houses when renting, its rather more tricky when buying.
  • grizzly1911
    grizzly1911 Posts: 9,965 Forumite
    cells wrote: »
    The social housing issue is funney

    you ask the same idots who say "the government should never have sold off council homes" the simple question.....should the government buy private homes and call them council homes? Guess what...they cry no that isnt a good idea

    So the government selling homes is a bad idea, but the government buying homes is also a bad idea......

    What is done is done. Extra capacity is required buying existing homes without replacing them would do little to help. Government buying new houses, creating additional capacity and supplying them for social needs wouldn't be a bad idea.
    "If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....

    "big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham
  • cells
    cells Posts: 5,246 Forumite
    Generali wrote: »
    Isn't this just shuffling people amongst the same homes.

    BTL didn't reduce the housing capacity of the UK, it just meant more people rented and fewer bought.

    Right to buy led to fewer renters and more owners.

    Neither thing changed the total capacity of the UK's housing stock.


    not true

    people in privately rented homes live more dense than any other group

    what that means is as the population increases faster than the increase in housing the private rental sector has to grow to avoid homelessness.

    For example assume a country has
    10 million OO homes at an occupancy of 2.0 persons,
    10 million council homes at an occupancy of 2.0 and
    10 million private homes at an occupancy of 2.4
    This example country thus has 64 million people living in 30 million homes.

    Say the population increases by 5 million over the decade and no additional homes are built what would happen??? Would 5 million people live under bridges? No everyone will just have to live more densely.

    The council stock would stay about the same, the OO stock would stay about the same as they have locked in prices.

    Quite clearly the 10 million private rented homes would have to house these 5 million additional people. So the ocupancy rate would go from 2.4 to 2.9

    With these 5 million additional people sharing the rented sector prices will increase because people don't want to live at 2.9 to a house they want to live at 2.0

    The result will be rent price inflation and house price inflation. An important part of this is that the OO pool will shrink and the PR pool increase to allow the PR to live a tiny bit less dense and reduce some of the pressure.
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 352.2K Banking & Borrowing
  • 253.6K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 454.3K Spending & Discounts
  • 245.2K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 600.9K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 177.5K Life & Family
  • 259K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16K Discuss & Feedback
  • 37.7K Read-Only Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.