Is section 75 applicable?

lisyloo

I am paying a large amount for a solar install.
The deposit and workmanship are insured under a scheme seperate to the installer so if the installer goes bust that's covered.

However if I pay by CC (a small amount due to charges) then would I be covered for manufacturers warranties for goods bought by the installer and not by myself.
The reason I'm asking is that some of these warranties are very long term e.g. 25 years and hence there is a risk that manufacturers could not be around in that timescale.

I know how section 75 works but I'm not clear on whether the chain is broken because I will be paying the installer and not paying the manufacturer.

So - is the chain broken?

chattychappy

I think the chain would be broken.

It is part of the agreement with the merchant that the manufacturer's warranty is offered. If the merchant somehow failed to make sure it was in place or misrepresented it, then you'd have a claim against the merchant. But if the manufacturer went bust, then I can't see any claim against the merchant for breach of contract. They fulfilled their side of the bargain. So therefore no claim against the CC.

My answer would be different if the deal was "We guarantee our products for 25 years and this is backed by the manufacturer". That suggests to me that the merchant is guaranteeing the product as well as the manufacturer. But I expect the T+Cs would say something different, if not the advertising.

Willing to be pursuaded otherwise.

eskbanker

Sorry, this is another question rather than an answer, but taking things one step further, even if you bought the goods directly from the manufacturer and found a fault 24 years into a 25 year warranty period, would it be reasonable to make a Section 75 claim against the card company if the manufacturer was no longer trading? I know that there's no specific time limit on S75 but is it legitimate to regard it as backing a long-term warranty?

chattychappy

eskbanker wrote: »

Sorry, this is another question rather than an answer, but taking things one step further, even if you bought the goods directly from the manufacturer and found a fault 24 years into a 25 year warranty period, would it be reasonable to make a Section 75 claim against the card company if the manufacturer was no longer trading? I know that there's no specific time limit on S75 but is it legitimate to regard it as backing a long-term warranty?

I don't see a problem. Limitation gives you 6 years from date of breach. In this case there is a continuing obligation - so if you have a problem after 24 years then the onus is on the manufacturer+CC jointly to repair under the warranty. If they failed to do so then you have a further 6 years to go to court. If CCs don't like this obligation then they don't have to authorise the related transaction in the first place. (Tough on them, I know. But that's S75!)

lisyloo

would it be reasonable to make a Section 75 claim against the card company if the manufacturer was no longer trading?

I would say firstly that it's a contractual and therefore legal obligation.

But secondly - yes there are some things that it's perfectly reasonable to expect them to last 25 years.

eskbanker

Fair enough, I suppose it would still be a breach of contract even after all that time if the manufacturer was unable or unwilling to honour their warranty obligations - apologies for the digression!

bigadaj

I'd check the exact terms of the warranty.

I would expect there to be requirements in terms of maintenance and probably servicing, and also there will be a sliding scale in terms of what is reasonable in terms of use. It is possible that power generation might diminish for example, like a car might lose power or increase fuel consumption.

It's certainly a good idea to put something on a card and if things were to go wrong then try and raise a claim, though chance of success will be dependent on timescale, even if the purchaser relationship is considered to be appropriate.

lisyloo

I would expect there to be requirements in terms of maintenance and probably servicing

A lot of solar PV stuff is "fit and forget" especially as you need scaffolding to get up the roof.

in terms of what is reasonable in terms of use

:-)
One they are up there is not much you can do as an individual to stop the sun shining, or rain falling or birds depositing on them.
The actual degradation in performance is slight, for example many are 90% after 10 years.
There are published figures on what's expected so I don't think there is huge scope for argument here.

BTW - we are getting panel by panel monitoring whic uses a web portal and alerts. So if say one panel wasn't working we'd have the "evidence" from the manufaturers own monitoring equipment.

It's certainly a good idea to put something on a card

Why?
If the chain is broken because I'm paying an installer then what's the advantage of putting something on a card (and paying charges)?
Hoping for a goodwill payment?
Or because we aren't 100% the chain is broken?

lisyloo

Isn't the retailer liable? or am I getting confused with something else?

bigadaj

As discussed previously I have my doubts on solar but that's partially a separate issue.

Fit and forget is a wonderful idea but rarely works in anything electrical and mechanical. Much of the published data that I've seen is conveniently from places like Spain, California etc so no rain, less potential for wind damage, algal growth etc.

It's worth putting things on a card because no one is absolutely sure and it may be that you could get a payment, goodwill or otherwise. This will depend on the time that has elapsed since the installation.

Of course the retailer is your first port of call with any problems, and so long as they have undertaken all the works it should be up to them to sort out the issue. They may of course go bust, so best to target as many potential sources of redress as possible, eg research who the manufacturer is, as again they could go bust, and enforcing even a Court judgement against say a Chinese manufacturer would be virtually impossible.

Also it is of course one thing to say that anything will last 25 years and another to guarantee it, you have faith in them which is fine. I also work in construction and 25 years is a typical design life, though things will normally last for much longer. There's no guarantee but it's a convenient number on which to base a design and on which calculations can be done, the useful life of parts or moving equipment be compared etc.

lisyloo

Will pm you.