ESA permitted work and PW1 form

Xign

Not many people in the DWP know the rules about Permitted Work. I doubt many who receive ESA can or do work.

When Universal Credit comes in, there's going to be no more permitted work. Claimants can earn money from employment without needing permission. As long as it's not above a threshold. There's not many good sides to UC but that is one.

tinkledom

zippy1969 wrote: »

Hi.

Just phoned DWP three-times and spoke with three different advisors. My god, talk about making life difficult and not knowing much about their own regulations.

- One advisor told me that the 52-week rule applies to support group as well as the WRAG, another said it only applied to WRAG.

- The first advisor told me that the claimant has to start the work before letting DWP know. However, I said that my friend needed the work authorised by DWP prior to starting. She said they couldn't do that...then changed her mind when I said that this seemed unfair as if the work starts then is not authorised by DWP that could cause my friend all sorts of anxiety.

- One told me that permitted work earnings are deductable from Housing and Council Tax benefit, another said they're disregarded.

- One advisor was just about to take my friends details from me to send out a PW1 form but then cut me off. The next advisor said that my friend has to speak to DWP personally to request the form.

So...I'm alot more confused than before I started!

Contacting the DWP never inspires much confidence in the way they operate.

I found this 'sample' of the PW1 form:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/128480/response/317533/attach/3/PW1%20ESA%201011%20For%20Information.pdf

The contradiction of this form is that it's titled "Telling us about paid work you WANT to do" but then goes on to ask such questions as "when will you get your first payment?" If it's work you WANT to do, but haven't started due to awaiting a DWP decision...how can you give an answer to this?

I don't want to worry you, but a friend of ours who was claiming ESA - Support Group decided along with her employer that she would re-start work but only doing limited hours. They agreed that she would do 8 hours a week as her rate per hour was £12. This was below both of the limits for Permitted Work. She eventually received form PW1 from the DWP and filled it giving details of her hours worked and rate per hour.


A few weeks went by receiving no reply. Then she had a letter from them telling her that they had suspended her ESA claim and that she was to undergo an assessment. She had an assessment some months previously that had her put in the Support Group.
Anyhow she went for the assessment and about 4 weeks later she was told that she was fit for work. When she obtained the reasons for the decision, ATOS had recorded that she was back at work doing the same job as before but for less hours.


How they came to know that she doesn't know, she never told them at the interview. Anyhow, she appealed but her claim is still suspended.


Beware, it seems that they will use the PW rules against you!!!

rogerblack

Xign wrote: »

Not many people in the DWP know the rules about Permitted Work. I doubt many who receive ESA can or do work.

ESA is not granted for being unable to work.

ESA is granted for an assessment period, or for meeting one or more of the descriptors and thereby meeting the legal tests for Limited Capacity for Work - or Limited Capacity for Work Related Activity. Or one of the other narrowly defined categories.

Carefully omitted in these regulations is actually any test that the claimant is fit for some, or even for any work.

A large fraction of those on the assessment for ESA could in principle do permitted work - and should have this pointed out to them at every possible stage.

For example - people who have broken a leg will not usually be able to claim ESA after the assessment period, as it will have healed.
But if they were informed they could do work, this would be very helpful.

There is a hideous lack of information about permitted work.

zippy1969

tinkledom wrote: »

I don't want to worry you, but a friend of ours who was claiming ESA - Support Group decided along with her employer that she would re-start work but only doing limited hours. They agreed that she would do 8 hours a week as her rate per hour was £12. This was below both of the limits for Permitted Work. She eventually received form PW1 from the DWP and filled it giving details of her hours worked and rate per hour.


A few weeks went by receiving no reply. Then she had a letter from them telling her that they had suspended her ESA claim and that she was to undergo an assessment. She had an assessment some months previously that had her put in the Support Group.
Anyhow she went for the assessment and about 4 weeks later she was told that she was fit for work. When she obtained the reasons for the decision, ATOS had recorded that she was back at work doing the same job as before but for less hours.


How they came to know that she doesn't know, she never told them at the interview. Anyhow, she appealed but her claim is still suspended.


Beware, it seems that they will use the PW rules against you!!!

Is this a common practice?

Xign

rogerblack wrote: »

ESA is not granted for being unable to work.

ESA is granted for an assessment period, or for meeting one or more of the descriptors and thereby meeting the legal tests for Limited Capacity for Work - or Limited Capacity for Work Related Activity. Or one of the other narrowly defined categories.

Carefully omitted in these regulations is actually any test that the claimant is fit for some, or even for any work.

A large fraction of those on the assessment for ESA could in principle do permitted work - and should have this pointed out to them at every possible stage.

For example - people who have broken a leg will not usually be able to claim ESA after the assessment period, as it will have healed.
But if they were informed they could do work, this would be very helpful.

There is a hideous lack of information about permitted work.

I agree. Hardly any information is known about permitted work. It's pretty ghastly.

tinkledom

zippy1969 wrote: »

Is this a common practice?

I have no idea. All that I know that it has happened to someone I know.

tinkledom

Xign wrote: »

I agree. Hardly any information is known about permitted work. It's pretty ghastly.

Let me put it this way. If what is said is the case and ESA is only given based on the descriptors and has absolutely nothing to do with the illness and not being able to work, how would the DWP see it if the work being carried out gives rise to some doubt as to whether the claimant should really have qualified for a particular descriptor because of the work that is taking place?

cattermole

rogerblack wrote: »

ESA is not granted for being unable to work.

ESA is granted for an assessment period, or for meeting one or more of the descriptors and thereby meeting the legal tests for Limited Capacity for Work - or Limited Capacity for Work Related Activity. Or one of the other narrowly defined categories.

Carefully omitted in these regulations is actually any test that the claimant is fit for some, or even for any work.

A large fraction of those on the assessment for ESA could in principle do permitted work - and should have this pointed out to them at every possible stage.

For example - people who have broken a leg will not usually be able to claim ESA after the assessment period, as it will have healed.
But if they were informed they could do work, this would be very helpful.

There is a hideous lack of information about permitted work.

It's a bit like the principal you can be off sick from one job and get SSP but still work in another which in the case of a broken leg is perfectly feasible. It depends on what the job is and how your illness or disability relates to it.

Zippy I would make an official complaint to the DWP about your phone calls to day, document it all and pursue the complaint on the basis that you are unable to get accurate information from DWP staff. I'd be tempted to ask my MP to take it up as well, that's what they are there for. It is clearly an issue that needs sorting out and clearly defining. You obviously want to work and you are being prevented from doing so by ludicrous bureaucracy.

It is not acceptable for DWP staff to not know the answers and provide accurate information, if they don't know they should say so and find out.

tinkledom

cattermole wrote: »

It's a bit like the principal you can be off sick from one job and get SSP but still work in another which in the case of a broken leg is perfectly feasible. It depends on what the job is and how your illness or disability relates to it.

It is not acceptable for DWP staff to not know the answers and provide accurate information, if they don't know they should say so and find out.

Well then doesn't that make a mockery of the whole ESA system?


You can't do your own job but could well do a different one?

If I use your argument, very few should even be awarded ESA they should be sent to the Jobcentre to claim JSA instead and told to look for a job more fitting their situation and illness.


Being awarded ESA and put in the Support Group for not being able to mobilise 50 metres is wrong as a job sitting down all day with very minimum mobility needed should be sought instead.


As for getting the right information from the DWP - you have to be joking!
It will never happen and there is no need for it to happen.
As a claimant you are required to seek advice. No where does it say that your only port of call is the DWP.

cattermole

You need to re-read what Roger said that isn't what he is saying or I was.

Yes the ESA system is a mockery but it does not follow that I believe people who are ill or sick should be on JSA!

I disagree completely that Government Departments cannot be held accountable for their poor performance. We may be a nation of moaners but very few people actually have the confidence to complain or follow through with complaints!! Particularly if they receive what they want at an early point in the complaints procedure.

MP's can be very supportive in helping with job centre problems (depending on the MP of course). It's clearly in the complaints procedure to contact your MP at a particular stage.