Excel and Newlyn - confused by threads!

pistonchick72

I've been reading all the threads on advice about PPC's etc, including about the Peel Centre (where my 'invoice' is for) but I'm completely lost having gone round and round the threads, with no success as to the correct advice for my situation.
I received a parking letter from Excel some time towards the end of last year. It had 2 photos on it, both of my car. One entering their car park and one leaving. I decided to ignore their ridiculous demands as although they had these images, they couldn't prove I had actually parked there - no windscreen ticket- just that I had been on their ground.
Anyway, I have now had a letter from Newlyn this week asking for £166, but there is no payment deadline.
Have I missed my opportunity to appeal now? Does the whole thing work differently for when there is photo evidence that I entered and left? Do I have grounds if they don't have actual evidence I parked there?
I know that I was on their ground, but I also know I didn't park in a space; I was there during the daytime on other business and merely waited on the road inside the car park to collect someone.
Apologies if this should be in another thread, I'm new, so please just feedback to me where I should place this....

Redx

so did you read this one ?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822

tells you everything you need to know, especially for england and wales

excel normally issue a postal pcn so you had 28 days to appeal it, did you do so within that time ?

if it was a windscreen pcn, then the time is longer for the NTK to arrive

most people have run out of time to appeal after those time constraints, but its never too late to appeal an NTK to any ppc

the PEEL centre features heavily on here (almost daily) so there is plenty of info in that newbies thread about the peel centre , including links to templates, complaint email addresses etc , successful appeals as well

its a pay and display car park, so waiting for someone is no excuse, you pay to be on the land, that is the rule , so your definition of not parked is different than their rule

the fact there was no windscreen ticket is no defence either

its a private car park controlled by anpr cameras at the entrance and exit and these are checked against the ticket machines where you should have bought a ticket and given your reg number, which stops a pcn being issued by post about 7 days later

there is no actual "waiting time" allowed on there, but if it was less than 10 minutes on your PCN you have a case due to leaving within a reasonable time after deciding you could not comply with their "rules"

IGNORE was not an option last year and hasnt been since oct 2012 due to POFA 2012, so ignoring this pcn was a silly thing to do (being blunt here)

the fact is that they have "anpr evidence" that you were there and that you broke their "rules" (the sign there at the entrance) , so you were allegedly guilty of trespassing and can be taken to court for allegedly trespassing by the landowner or his legally appointed agent, then the court will decide the outcome based on the evidence before it

from what you have said so far, you would lose in court , so would need a much better defence than what you have mentioned up to now (like martin cutts did when it went to court and was on tv a few years ago)

a popla type of defence may prevail though

---

here is what you SHOULD have done , within 28 days of receiving the NTK letter (the one with the photos on it)

registered on here and pepipoo and checked the sticky threads , also looked for similar cases on here (there are dozens if not hundreds of similar cases for the peel centre)

then sent this soft appeal to excel

Dear Excel,

As the registered keeper of (reg) I'm in receipt of your parking invoice xxxxxx dated xxxxxx. I wish to invoke your appeals process as all liability to your company is denied on the following:

1) this charge is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss
2) your signage does not comply with the BPA Code of Practice
3) you do not have the authority or permission to issue invoices at this location

These points and others will be raised with Popla should you not accept this appeal, and you will be expected to provide a full breakdown of of your alleged loss, and your full unredacted contract with the landowner.

If you do reject the challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my expenses from you. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses, legal fees, etc. By continuing to pursue me you agree to pay these costs when I prevail.

Please issue your cancellation within 35 days of this letter or supply a popla code to appeal to them.

Any communication that does not either confirm cancellation or include a POPLA verification code shall be reported to the BPA as a breach of their Code of Practice - the BPA recently issued guidance to all members to remind them of this fact. Such communication may also be deemed harassment and pursued accordingly.


Faithfully

this would have been refused and a POPLA code issued

then you would have used one of the template popla appeal letters, https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/64393064#Comment_64393064 adapted for yourself, and won at popla probably on not a gpeol or no contract, costing you nothing at all in the end, and the pcn would have been cancelled, and no debt recovery letters issued

wins

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4488337 post 780

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4761346 post #63


all ignoring will do will probably bring about a court case that you could not ignore any longer, ignore doesnt ignore, it just delays things making it worse for yourself, like ignoring a leaky pipe will bring a flood and water damage , it does not fix anything at all

Coupon-mad

I received a parking letter from Excel some time towards the end of last year. It had 2 photos on it, both of my car. One entering their car park and one leaving. I decided to ignore their ridiculous demands as although they had these images, they couldn't prove I had actually parked there - no windscreen ticket- just that I had been on their ground.

Oh dear - this is so frustrating to read. We've spent the best part of a full year on this forum telling people NOT to ignore these nowadays, and how to win at appeal. And you've thrown that away and now are on the back foot throughout. Excel sometimes try court as well so you really have chucked away a simple solution which would have killed it at POPLA. Yes you are too late because we know Excel won't issue a POPLA code late.

The first link Redx gave you is a clear sticky thread that's been at the top of this forum since November. It tells you about your {more limited} options at debt collector stage so I can't understand why you would be confused unless you simply didn't read the sticky threads first. The thread in question also begs people not to start new threads about the Peel Centre as there are far too many on here already and the repeated advice is hardly 'confusing'.

To be clear - NO-ONE is suggesting you pay this rubbish. Read your options in the sticky thread I wrote, linked by Redx and stop panicking.

Redx

I think part of the problem with this car park is that everybody seems to believe they have a story to tell, or feels miffed or aggrieved when they get the pcn, yet its quite simple on there really (even if we dont like it)

its a p&d car park and has been for several years, but in the last year or more changed to 24/7/365 from a daytime charge only

anpr camera on the way in, another one on the way out , no other entrances or exits

ticket machines (when working) for people to buy a ticket to park, be it parked on the roadway, a parking bay , some other piece or tarmac, or whatever , waiting time is "parking time" , driving round and round is "parking time" , waiting in a queue to get out is "parking time" , you are clocked in and out and pay for the time taken to do whatever it takes , even if its going to KFC and using the 15 minutes at kfc in the special bays which are payment exempt, you still have to enter and exit quickly and not wait around with no p&d ticket

there is no "waiting time" or waiting places for dropping off or picking up anyone or anything at the Peel Centre , Stockport , PERIOD !

anpr cameras clock the reg, these are (or should be) checked against the ticket machine receipts (where you enter the reg number of the vehicle you arrived in, not some other silly thing like to**ers or efff you) and providing they tally no pcn is issued

anything that doesnt tally and they send a postal pcn

no ticket and a postal pcn is issued

yes they send them even if the ticket machines have covers on them , they will send them if there is a Y in the day , any reason at all they think they can get away with

thats why its rarely about "what happened" and more about beating them at popla , promptly , within the time frames under pofa 2012

the fact that this car park was on watchdog due to the martin cutts court case and the fact they have changed the signage twice since that court case means people should be more aware of this infamous car park and dont get trapped on it, for any reason , avoid it like the plague or ebola or aids is the best advice to give, so park at tescos and lose some weight walking !!

pistonchick72

Thanks REDX, I DID read the sticky thread, but the information isn't that simple for a newbie to follow everything, especially when your situation doesnt seem to 'fit' with the model and there are so many other links you are told to read.
Eventually you end up in circles and more confused than before.
However, your full advice was extremely helpful and I am very grateful for the time you spent replying.
(Also I very rarely drive anymore so this was a one off visit, I hadn't used this car park for over a year, but I will avoid it like the plague now!!)
I feel much more informed, but as I don't have the letter they sent anymore, I think I may have to contact them to ask for a copy??

pistonchick72

Dear Coupon-mad.
Thank you for such a 'warm' welcome to the forum....I'm not an idiot so thank you for your patronising tones and for treating me like one.
Please remember, I'm NEW and don't know this subject as well as others, even I have I spent 2 days reading all the posts.

Coupon-mad

especially when your situation doesnt seem to 'fit' with the model and there are so many other links you are told to read.

But the debt collector section in the NEWBIES thread fits your case exactly, telling you what your options are when you are too late to appeal? I wrote it because we could not cope with all these stories every day, all the same. Hence the frustration too, because you could have won easily and we hate Excel.

as I don't have the letter they sent anymore, I think I may have to contact them to ask for a copy??

Excel will laugh their heads off. You will not be sent a copy, you will get a court claim if you admit to being disorganised. Sorry, but that's the game they play, they pick cases for court and a naïve letter saying you've lost the only important letter so far, is going to flag you up as an easy pushover at court.

The easiest way forward is if you have a good think about who could have been driving that day and send them the name and address of the driver (different address). Don't ask me to spell it out as Excel read this forum...a new driver at a different address gets a new Notice to appeal.

Redx

as above ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

you are one of the naive people they like to sc*m (pardon my bluntness here)

they pick people like you off like ducks on the blackpool air rifle shys , so I am afraid that throwing away the PCN didnt help and they wont issue you with another one except if it ends up at court , in the pre-court papers, which it may well do if you ignore the debt collectors (my advice is to ignore the DC like it says in the CM sticky thread)

I wrote a lot of the advice in this thread so we can refer the next transgressors to it as well, save on typing it out all the time

please note, a lot of the car parks have similar systems in place, even so called free ones, so wherever you are , check the signs , be it asda , aldi , lidl , sainsburys , b+q , the range , B&M stores , staples , m@plins , there are hundreds, nay thousands of similar entrapment parking zones in the UK , so not reading the signs will only end up with another one being issued, but your next one will mean you will come here and get advice asap and not leave it and not ignore it either

there was a similar case on here this last week where the RK was advised to "dob in" the driver , that way the driver could get a pcn and then appeal it as it would not be "out of time"

ps: the creditor reference (excel ref) should be on the DC letters from Newlyns

pustit

Could it be arranged through the mods to edit the first post on every old thread giving old advice, with a prominent note In CAPITALS, in BOLD, UNDERLINED with a bigger FONT and in RED to point newbies to the latest advice in the stickies before proceeding ?

Coupon-mad

pistonchick72 wrote: »

Dear Coupon-mad.
Thank you for such a 'warm' welcome to the forum....I'm not an idiot so thank you for your patronising tones and for treating me like one.
Please remember, I'm NEW and don't know this subject as well as others, even I have I spent 2 days reading all the posts.

Sorry to come across like that - it is not intended but I don't understand why anyone would spend two whole days reading random threads (old threads even?) instead of the sticky thread in capitals at the top, on page one: 'Newbies read these FAQs first!'

We often get newbies posting that they've read the sticky thread and here is their POPLA appeal they've written straight away after reading the guidance. All of them are new and none of them know the subject at all - but they just read the obvious thread at the top, first, and act on it. I wish you had done before Christmas as I am sorry you are now having to play a slightly scary game of catch-up or ignore (without POPLA as an option unless you can name another driver/address). A 'new' driver's name/initials at a different address gets a new Notice to appeal! Please consider that fact...

And to be fair...if you search the forum for the word 'Peel' you would know why we all post thru gritted teeth when we see yet another thread about the place, especially when the poster has missed the boat. I am sorry but I am telling it like it is - and you are possibly likely to end up in small claims court.

However, that is NOT a reason to just pay them. Which is why I have a section on options for 'debt collector stage' in the guidance (Newlyn are pen-pushers!!).