If Not obliged to pay fines, why pay at all?

ParkingForFree

This is a serious question, and I'd love to hear your views. (sorry, new member here by the way). Have lurked for an age.

If you were to find a nice private car park close to work, what is to stop you parking there every day for free? ie. not even bothering to buy a ticket?

After all, you can't be clamped and you can't be forced to pay for "fines" by private companies by what I've read so far on here.

Anybody tried this? Would anybody try this?

If not, why not?

I'm thinking of giving it a go myself to see what happens. -> runs off to strap my body armour on.:A

Redx

the simple fact is that for england and wales they can take you to court, and they are doing precisely that at the moment under POFA 2012 , ie:- taking the RK to court if the driver isnt named , or the driver to court if he or she is named

all they do is get the RK details from the dvla

I thought the above was obvious to anybody who reads this forum or the pepipoo forum regularly

if it wasnt true, how come parking prankster has recently issued 2 court guides ?

and why do members like him and bargepole and several others turn up at the court hearings so often ?

see his blog http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/parkingeye-court-wins-dip-to-62.html

ps:- they are not "fines" either , they are invoices

4consumerrights

ParkingForFree wrote: »

If you were to find a nice private car park close to work, what is to stop you parking there every day for free? ie. not even bothering to buy a ticket?

After all, you can't be clamped and you can't be forced to pay for "fines" by private companies by what I've read so far on here.


I'm thinking of giving it a go myself to see what happens. -> runs off to strap my body armour on.:A

Because that would be abuse - they are not even "fines" as you call them.

This isn't about abusing car park facilities - it is about challenging the disproportionate charges applied for for certain rules which are made up - normally by the parking company it an attempt to generate as much income as they can.

The parking companies usually offer their services free - even selling themselves by offering a percentage of the parking charges received back to the landowner. Their whole business model is to make money from the motorist. Normally no rent is paid to the landowner for their business operations and they escape liabilities such as paying business rates on their commercial enterprise of car park management.


Private landowners invite people to park and use their facilities. They are well within their rights to charge a fee for doing so.

Bantex_2

Redx wrote: »

the simple fact is that for england and wales they can take you to court, and they are doing precisely that at the moment under POFA 2012 , ie:- taking the RK to court if the driver isnt named , or the driver to court if he or she is named

all they do is get the RK details from the dvla

I thought the above was obvious to anybody who reads this forum or the pepipoo forum regularly

if it wasnt true, how come parking prankster has recently issued 2 court guides ?

and why do members like him and bargepole and several others turn up at the court hearings so often ?

see his blog http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/parkingeye-court-wins-dip-to-62.html

ps:- they are not "fines" either , they are invoices

that doesn't really address the OPs question though.
If courts always find against the parking company, what is the point in buying a ticket in the first place?

peter_the_piper

No-one on here condones not paying if the landowner allows you to park for a fee. Its his land after all. Its the made up rules etc that we fight against. If you do try to park without paying you won't get help on here or pepipoo.com. that's for sure.

Redx

Bantex wrote: »

that doesn't really address the OPs question though.
If courts always find against the parking company, what is the point in buying a ticket in the first place?

this next post after yours is why that question wasnt answered by me, because it should not be answered

No-one on here condones not paying if the landowner allows you to park for a fee. Its his land after all. Its the made up rules etc that we fight against. If you do try to park without paying you won't get help on here or pepipoo.com. that's for sure.

I may help those who feel "wronged" by the circumstances they find themselves in, but I would not help somebody who wishes to break the law or who wishes to be silly at some landowners expense

I respect a landowners rights and would not help anyone to breach those landowner rights , so if the OP was taken to court over his actions I would respect the findings of that courts decision and in fact would welcome that court action as it may deter the OP from his course of action in future

HO87

I don't normally post in threads of this type but, I'm sorry, if you want to engage in this sort of puerile non-debate then why not go to the P,V & W board? If what you actually want to say is "Why do you lot defend all of these people who can't be bothered to pay to park" go on and say it. Don't shilly-shally.

No doubt you have also had people thoughtlessly park on your driveway.

Bantex_2

Redx wrote: »

this next post after yours is why that question wasnt answered by me, because it should not be answered

I may help those who feel "wronged" by the circumstances they find themselves in, but I would not help somebody who wishes to break the law or who wishes to be silly at some landowners expense

I respect a landowners rights and would not help anyone to breach those landowner rights , so if the OP was taken to court over his actions I would respect the findings of that courts decision and in fact would welcome that court action as it may deter the OP from his course of action in future

Thanks for that.
Doubt if some of the other regulars would agree with you though.
A common stance seems to be that we do not judge why the charge was issued and will do all we can to to get you off paying it.

Bantex_2

HO87 wrote: »

I don't normally post in threads of this type but, I'm sorry, if you want to engage in this sort of puerile non-debate then why not go to the P,V & W board? If what you actually want to say is "Why do you lot defend all of these people who can't be bothered to pay to park" go on and say it. Don't shilly-shally.

No doubt you have also had people thoughtlessly park on your driveway.

Looking at some older posts, it appears that anyone that asks that type of question just gets accused of being employed by a parking company.

HO87

Bantex wrote: »

Thanks for that.
Doubt if some of the other regulars would agree with you though.
A common stance seems to be that we do not judge why the charge was issued and will do all we can to to get you off paying it.

Presumably, then you do not consider that one of the cornerstones our legal system, that an accuser/claimant should be made to prove their allegation, is relevant these days? The more so when there is no legal basis for the charges that are levied. Or had you missed that point too?

Redx

I have my own stance and that is helping those who for no "fault" of their own seem to have silly charges aimed against them by parking companies who make up silly rules and then try to "fleece" people of large amounts of their money instead of using some sort of default payment system that can be agreed by various parties like the OFT and Consumer Action and CAB etc

the fact that there will soon be a meeting about his in the public (council) sector shows the depth of debate although it may not shine through to the private parking sector

I havent seen many landowners taking people to court since I looked on here last year though , it seems to be mainly parking companies with no contracts, iffy contracts and claiming higher amounts than can be actual losses , as the prankster has indicated many times

if these parking companies were fair , transparent and truthful (yeah right) about the whole business, had a proper appeals system that worked as it should , asked for a reasonable amount for the "transgression" instead of exorbitant amounts like £100 for overstaying by 10 minutes on a "free" car park then maybe we all would not get so inflamed about it

I find that in most genuine cases that we see on these forums the "punishment does not fit the crime" so I will advise those people who may have "done the wrong thing" to fess up and hopefully agree a reasonable solution , but when its bully boy tactics by greedy companies who fly at the edge of what is lawful (or decent , or compassionate , or respectful) then as far as I am concerned the bullies get their "comeuppance" instead of what was fair and reasonable under the circumstances

as a layman I may not put everything in the manner others like , but I will help those who cannot help themselves against bully boy tactics who are in the situation due to entrapment or poor signage or no contract or not a genuine pre estimate of loss

this thread and post says my position on these matters https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816165

but I do not condone knowingly flouting the parking rules either , which the OP has posted about , he didnt even seem to know what a fine was or is, compared to what we normally discuss on here

but I rarely see a landowner taking somebody to court on here either , its usually some third party like a private parking company , who rarely have the authority or "right" to do so when all the facts come out

the disgusting aspects of these cases can clearly be seen when people like PE take disabled pensioners like lainieee to court and get a CCJ over some disgraceful PCN that should never have been issued and may have no lawful contract in place to do so in the first place and I would do what I could to get that decision completely overturned and compensation paid by the parties involved

but I would not condone her knowingly flouting parking rules in the manner described in post #1 either