If Not obliged to pay fines, why pay at all?

Bantex_2

HO87 wrote: »

Presumably, then you do not consider that one of the cornerstones our legal system, that an accuser/claimant should be made to prove their allegation, is relevant these days? The more so when there is no legal basis for the charges that are levied. Or had you missed that point too?

So
If by nature these charges are not legal, why buy a ticket in the first place?
Is it just a voluntary act?

bargepole

Bantex wrote: »

So
If by nature these charges are not legal, why buy a ticket in the first place?
Is it just a voluntary act?

It's not as black and white as that.

If you don't buy a ticket, you run the risk of ending up with a court claim, and while many of these have been thrown out by Judges, just as many have been upheld - small claims is a bit of a lottery in that respect, and then you have to go through all the rigmarole of filling forms, serving documents, and taking time off to attend court, which most people would rather not have to do.

The legality or otherwise of PPC charges has never been properly challenged in a court of record, and different County Court Judges will have differing interpretations of how contract law applies in this situation.

None of the regulars on here would advise anyone to avoid paying a legitimate fee for parking on private land. It is when the punishment is disproportionate to the crime that the problems arise.

CKhalvashi

Bantex wrote: »

So
If by nature these charges are not legal, why buy a ticket in the first place?
Is it just a voluntary act?

No.

I rented part of my drive to a colleague a few weeks ago. I own the land, therefore if someone wants to park there, they should voluntarily pay a fee to park there.

The fee I charged was £25 for 2 weeks, and for that I'd drop them off/pick them up from the airport.

So, what you're saying is that I could park on your drive, not pay, and everything is ok. Are you still happy with this?

CK

ParkingForFree

CKhalvashi wrote: »

No.

I rented part of my drive to a colleague a few weeks ago. I own the land, therefore if someone wants to park there, they should voluntarily pay a fee to park there.

The fee I charged was £25 for 2 weeks, and for that I'd drop them off/pick them up from the airport.

So, what you're saying is that I could park on your drive, not pay, and everything is ok. Are you still happy with this?

CK

I would not be happy, but I could not enforce you to pay.

Bantex_2

CKhalvashi wrote: »

No.

I rented part of my drive to a colleague a few weeks ago. I own the land, therefore if someone wants to park there, they should voluntarily pay a fee to park there.

The fee I charged was £25 for 2 weeks, and for that I'd drop them off/pick them up from the airport.

So, what you're saying is that I could park on your drive, not pay, and everything is ok. Are you still happy with this?

CK

The perceived wisdom on here seems to be that any charge over and above the actual cost to the landowner is unfair. I doubt if I could quantify an actual cost of someone parking on my drive for a week though so it appears there would be little I could do (legally) to stop it happening.
It does all seem a little contradictory at times.

CKhalvashi

Bantex wrote: »

The perceived wisdom on here seems to be that any charge over and above the actual cost to the landowner is unfair. I doubt if I could quantify an actual cost of someone parking on my drive for a week though so it appears there would be little I could do (legally) to stop it happening.
It does all seem a little contradictory at times.

The point I was making is that OP probably wouldn't be impressed by it, even if there was little he could do.

CK

bargepole

Bantex wrote: »

The perceived wisdom on here seems to be that any charge over and above the actual cost to the landowner is unfair. I doubt if I could quantify an actual cost of someone parking on my drive for a week though so it appears there would be little I could do (legally) to stop it happening.
It does all seem a little contradictory at times.

The "parking on your drive" argument is a red herring which often gets thrown into these arguments, but is completely irrelevant.

PPCs operate in car parks where, generally, the general public are invited to park, either free for a set period, or in return for payment of an hourly rate.

Anyone parking on someone's driveway without permission is trespassing, and that is a different matter.

Bantex_2

bargepole wrote: »

The "parking on your drive" argument is a red herring which often gets thrown into these arguments, but is completely irrelevant.

PPCs operate in car parks where, generally, the general public are invited to park, either free for a set period, or in return for payment of an hourly rate.

Anyone parking on someone's driveway without permission is trespassing, and that is a different matter.

Many of the post here are for controlled parking areas such as private housing estates (where parking os by invitation only) etc which are "managed" by a PPC. Would your advice be different to them than from a retailers car park.

ParkingForFree

I agree with Bantex. Its hard to quantify how much its cost the owner of the car park.

For instance, I found a "makeshift" car park recently. Its all pot holed and - well, it is infact a building site. There are hoardings outside, advertising brand new two bedroom apartments. However, the building works never got underway (i suspect abandoned due to recession). So Euro Parks have come along and stuck two meters on the edge and have declared it a car park with a temporary sign.

I don't think its worth 5.00 to park there all day. If it was clean and well lit (there are no lights), then I might stretch to that. But I think its only worth 2.00. So I paid 2.00 and came back to an "invoice of 100.00".

I wont be paying, because I'm not the registered keeper of the vehicle and I have forgotten who was driving that day.

bazster

Bantex wrote: »

The perceived wisdom on here seems to be that any charge over and above the actual cost to the landowner is unfair.

Correct, if the charges are alleged to be for breach of contract (as they usually are), although it's not a question of fairness, it's contract law.

Bantex wrote: »

I doubt if I could quantify an actual cost of someone parking on my drive for a week though so it appears there would be little I could do (legally) to stop it happening.

(i) Yes you could quantify it, as what you could have reasonably charged that person for parking on your drive had you agreed to it and (ii) you could sue them for damages for trespass, and you could get an injunction to prevent them from doing it again.

Bantex wrote: »

It does all seem a little contradictory at times.

Only if you don't understand the difference between breach of contract and trespass.