Small Claim - Individual or Organisation

bris

dinky73 wrote: »

Thanks. I know we wouldn't get any VAT back from the VAT man but if he has illegally charged us VAT I thought we might be able to put that in out claim against him as well as the goods we've paid for and not been supplied with.


I wasn't sure about posting the name of the company. Is that OK to do?

Sorry a misunderstanding I thought you were asking if the VAT man would give you it back, but yes you would put in a claim for all monies paid plus reasonable expences.

And yes posting the company name wouldn't be a problem as ltd companies are public domain.

arcon5

When you say it has a company name on the invoice.... What exactly does it say? As there is a big difference between a company name and a business name.
For example, does it say super cheap kitchens or super cheap kitchens ltd?

If the latter and a company doesn't exist you may be able to sue him and if he defends the action against him personally, argue its not possible to enter in to a legal contract with an entity that doesn't exist, thus the contract must have been with him personally operating as sole trader

dinky73

The name on the invoice simple says "Herts Aerial Systems". The invoice has a vat number on 990-5221-018, but this is not valid. The invoice is signed Yours Sincerely and then his full name. That's it.


I have researched the company "Herts Aerial Systems" on companies house as I was unsure whether to claim in his name or the company name. The company name did not exist in the search on companies house, not even in the dissolved companies.



I then searched for Herts AV Systems which is a company I know he started up in June/July 2013 (after he stopped coming to work for us). This company was registered to his new home address in St Albans
until 16th January this year when it was changed to an address in Welwyn. The director also changed, it was originally his fianc!/partner but it is now an older man with the same surname, most probably his dad.


I also found a company on Companies House called Herts Aerial Group Ltd, this is listed to an address in Stevenage and has his fianc!/partner listed as Director. The status is active but it says DORMANT next to the latest accounts entry. The nature of business is also odd. He installs aerials and audio visual systems but the business is listed as "Repair & maintenance of other transport equipment not elsewhere classified"


The VAT number that was on all the invoices we paid to Herts Aerial Systems is 990-5221-018, this is fake as is it 10 digits long and VAT numbers are only 9. I called HMRC to check it and they say it doesn't exist, she tried a couple of variations but nothing came up. She suggested I call trading standards.


In total we have paid him a total of £1441.20 in VAT on the 3 invoices he gave us.


We paid £399 + VAT for outdoor speakers he didn't supply or fit.


We have also paid for a TV bracket we did not have, this was invoiced as £75 + VAT


We have all the invoices clearly showing the VAT number. The VAT number is also on the website,http://www.hertsaerialsystems.com/


His "other" company is this website http://www.hertsavsystems.co.uk/ (note the company number listed on this website is different from the one on companies house. the one listed actually takes you t the record for Herts Aerial Group Ltd)


We have texts and emails over a period of 6 months showing us asking him to come back to finish jobs and fit the speakers. We also have a copy of our bank statement showing the exact amount of the invoice containing the speakers being paid to him in Jan 2013.


That's about all the information I have. Is he being clever by not having his name or home address on any of the companies? If I go after him personally I've no guarantee he'll have the money or any assets to pay me.


I really want to get him though, I feel totally ripped off.

dinky73

Just another question. As the VAT number on the invoices and the website is either incorrect or made up is there a way to find out if Herts Aerial Systems did actually pay the VAT to HMRC under another VAT number? They weren't very helpful when I called them to check the VAT number and could offer no advice other than call trading standards.

Just wondering if there is a way to check if the vat we paid was valid or not before we enter into legal proceedings.


I understand we can also claim interest when doing a small claim. Do we claim interest from the date we paid him the money? In relation to the speakers we paid him in Jan 2013 but we weren't ready to have them fitted until June 2013, that doesn't mean he couldn't have given them to us though. I don't want to get this whole claim wrong which is why I was checking whether to do it in his name or not.


Thanks, I do appreciate all your help and advice.

arcon5

What's the correct format of a vat number? Maybe the first or last number is a typo, then phone hmrc with the different possibilities to see if it exists.

I'd be arguing he traded as an individual.

You could always send a letter before action then open a claim to see how he responds. If he defends it on the grounds it was ltd then seek to encourage a judge not to accept a name change

dinky73

arcon5 wrote: »

What's the correct format of a vat number? Maybe the first or last number is a typo, then phone hmrc with the different possibilities to see if it exists.

I'd be arguing he traded as an individual.

You could always send a letter before action then open a claim to see how he responds. If he defends it on the grounds it was ltd then seek to encourage a judge not to accept a name change

Country code GB followed by either:
standard: 9 digits (block of 3, block of 4, block of 2 – e.g. GB999 9999 73)
branch traders: 12 digits (as for 9 digits, followed by a block of 3 digits)
government departments: the letters GD then 3 digits from 000 to 499 (e.g. GBGD001)
health authorities: the letters HA then 3 digits from 500 to 999 (e.g. GBHA599)

For the 9-digit scheme, the 2-digit block containing the 8th and 9th digits is always in the range 00 to 96 and is derived from a weighted modulus-97 check number (an identical algorithm is used for the 12-digit scheme, ignoring the extra 3-digit block).[9] The current modulus-97 series is expected to run out during 2010, so a parallel series of numbers is being introduced from November 2009 for new registrations, restarting at 100 nnnn nn and following the same format but with the last two digits derived from an alternative algorithm known as "9755".[10] The algorithm is identical to the one for the established series except that 55 is subtracted to give the check number (modulus 97), so the check number is either 55 less than or (if this would be negative) 42 greater than the check number that a VAT number in the established series would have if it were identical in the first seven digits.[11] The details of the 97−55 check algorithm were to be secret[12] but are now available from HMRC on request.[13]