Small Claim - Individual or Organisation

dinky73

Hi

Hoping for a bit of advice. I'm about to make a small claim. A guy who has does work for us in the past has not supplied goods we have paid for. He did a lot of work on a house refurb but is yet to supply goods to the tune of 399 + VAT that were paid for last Jan. We have emailed, called, texted for months asking politely (yes i've kept them all) but he's ignoring us. I had enough and emailed him in Dec saying if he didn't refund by 31/12/13 I would start a small claim in the new year. I have the original invoice and a copy of our bank statement showing full payment to him last Jan.

Problem is although his website is still up and running we can't find any record of the company on companies house (looked in dissolved names too). I know he started another company in June 2013 under a slightly different name. My question is if i claim under his name do we have a case, does it have to be the company name? The invoices we have show the company name but he also signs each one with his name too. It was his company and he worked alone. The website just shows a VAT number but no company number and not showing on companies house. The new company does show on companies house with his new address.

I fear that if I do it on the company name it will come back as dissolved and I'll have no recourse. I know he has moved house also and his old address is still listed as the contact for the company we used.

Any advice?

Thank you

Raksha

Do the invoices charge VAT and show a VAT reg?

Was it a limited company?

dinky73

Hi, yes VAT was charged and there is a VAT number on the invoice.

dinky73

Just rang HMRC and it seems his VATnumber shown on his website and his invoices is bogus (10 digits not 9).

HMRC not interested, told me to call trading standards.

Is that what I should do next? How do I find out if he really is vat registered under another number?

What about all the vat we paid him?

Thanks

wealdroam

You never answered... did you pay a limited company or not?

If you did pay a limited company and that company no longer exists, then you have little to no hope or recovering your money.

dinky73

wealdroam wrote: »

You never answered... did you pay a limited company or not?

If you did pay a limited company and that company no longer exists, then you have little to no hope or recovering your money.

That's what I was trying to find out in my initial post. I don't know whether it is a Ltd company or not. It doesn't have limited in the name and does not come up on a search of companies house. I was told that if I rang HMRC with their VAT number they would be able to tell me who the VAT number related too. The VAT number is one digit too many and does not exist. So without the VAT number and no info on companies house how do I find anything else out as to whether it's a limited company or not?


The website is still active but lists the incorrect VAT number. I know his contact numbers, home address and full name but do not know if I can just claim against him as a person or not.


Thanks.

zzzLazyDaisy

If you contracted with a limited company, then you can only pursue the limited company. If you started proceedings against an individual director in those circumstances, he would be entitled to ask for the claim against him to be struck out.

On the other hand, if you have checked his name on the register of directors and it hasn't come up with anything for the time period that you were dealing with him, and the trading name does not exist as a limited company for that period, then there is a fair chance that you were contracting with him direct, and the proper defendant is 'Joe Bloggs t/a Joe's Building Supplies' (or whatever).

The only way to be sure is to do your research, make your claim, and put the ball in his court. He will have to file a defence and show evidence why he is not the correct defendant (if that is the case). He may not file a defence at all, in which case you can apply for judgement in default.

BUT be aware, that just as a defunct company is not worth pursuing through the courts, neither is an individual with no assets. You may win the court case and still get nothing.

Daisy

Edit, have you checked your home insurance to see if you have legal expenses cover?

Ectophile

Does any of the paperwork give a company name, registered address and registration number? All official paperwork from a limited company must do so.

If that's not there, I would just assume that the "company name" is just his personal trading name, and sue him personally.

dinky73

The paperwork just lists the company name (which is not on companies house). There is a similar company name, one word is different though, this has his dad listed as director. It was his wife until about 2 weeks ago.

No company address on paperwork, just a VAT number which we now know to be not valid.


His name does not appear as a director on companies house for the two other companies he's involved in. The one we have invoices for isn't on there so can't check anything about it.


My husband has sent all the info to his company lawyer and he's going to see whether its worth us pursuing and if we can claim back the VAT we paid if he wasn't registered. Will call trading standards too, that's what HMRC suggested we do.


Thanks

bris

The trading standards would be interested if he was illegally charging VAT but you have no hope of reclaiming the VAT element you paid from the VAT man.

Either it was a valid VAT registered company and the VAT number on the invoice is simply a mistake, in which case the VAT is correctly paid and would be part of your civil dispute.

Or he is not VAT registered and he claimed VAT ilegally in which case the VAT man does not have the VAT element and so doesn't have it to give back, hence trading standards.

Sounds to me like the invoice shows no company involvement and an individual claim would be the way to go, even insolvent companies are listed with companies house so there should be a record somewhere.

There are people on here who are good at tracking companies, post it's exact name on the invoice for someone to check.

dinky73

bris wrote: »

The trading standards would be interested if he was illegally charging VAT but you have no hope of reclaiming the VAT element you paid from the VAT man.

Either it was a valid VAT registered company and the VAT number on the invoice is simply a mistake, in which case the VAT is correctly paid and would be part of your civil dispute.

Or he is not VAT registered and he claimed VAT ilegally in which case the VAT man does not have the VAT element and so doesn't have it to give back, hence trading standards.

Sounds to me like the invoice shows no company involvement and an individual claim would be the way to go, even insolvent companies are listed with companies house so there should be a record somewhere.

There are people on here who are good at tracking companies, post it's exact name on the invoice for someone to check.

Thanks. I know we wouldn't get any VAT back from the VAT man but if he has illegally charged us VAT I thought we might be able to put that in out claim against him as well as the goods we've paid for and not been supplied with.


I wasn't sure about posting the name of the company. Is that OK to do?