Shock Letter from Water Authority

rollon65

Many thanks for your continued interest Cardew,

My meter shows 6 litres of water "consumption" after a period 4 hours, so pro-rata (if that should be the case?) that's 36 litres across a full day.
The water authority don't reckon they could detect a leak on the kind of scale that we are seeing.
As you can see from my latest post, we had a tiny leak under the kitchen that remained undetected for ages. When the floorboards were lifted it looked more like part of an underground cavern than the underfloor of our bungalow!
I would imagine that the leak had existed for more than 12 months for the degradation to be as bad as it was and the affected piping was tucked away against a wall way under and at the back of floor standing kitchen units.
I think the first indication that we had was some sponginess under our tread when using the washing machine.
We are of the vinyl and carpet floor-covering generation, which I imagine is a little more accommodating than laminate, under our circumstances.
I had the stopcock turned off for 2 hours today and the meter still registered something like half a litre of water passage between turning the stopcock off and just before I turned it on again.
I may feel the desire to cut further traps over the weekend, because by process of elimination it would seem likely that the mystery water consumption (6 litres/4 hours) is taking place inside, but I'm going to be so gutted if after disturbing the floors and floor-coverings in all rooms, I'm none the wiser.
Thanks for the meter reading info. I think we have some rather unique ones where we are as most are like your attachment, but ours are as per the link I provided (I noted that I "may not post attachments").
I will continue to post here, if only to help anyone else that might find themselves in the same predicament.

Best regards - rollon65.

superbigal36

rollon65 wrote: »

Hello to all respondents once again.

The guy called to take a look at our water situation yesterday and I was delighted to see him take an inclusive view of things - the silly bills, our efforts to conserve our water consumption, the meter and the possibility of a leak, and so on.
He checked out the leaky cistern possibility and gave that a clean bill of health too.
I have to say that to date I have no complaint about their customer PR approach. If the solution of the problem follows on along the same lines it will be a great weight off our minds.
He asked questions about our life-style, looked at our previous bills, then called base to set up a very reasonable revised direct debit sum of £31.00 per month, to be paid over a 12 month period, based on what he calculated our typical consumption should be.


Best regards - rollon65.

That £31 sounds about right for ongoing consumption.
What about the arrears though ?
It won't be paying them off in a hurry.

rollon65

Hello superbigal36,

Come on in - Really appreciate any new input.
As our water meter was installed in October 2012 and we heard nothing from our water authority until September 2013, they must surely be held
accountable for the extent of the arrears.
I have tackled them about this and their view is that the correctness of bills "is a shared responsibility", but they are at least not denying their liability.
There are the arrears to contend with on the one hand and the excess water consumption with its on-going implications on the other hand.
Additionally, what is producing a "consumption" of 6 litres every 4 hours, when no-one indoors is using any water whatsoever?
I have no immediate intention of taking readings in the middle of the night, to see if that rate is consistent throughout.
Yesterday saw me cutting a further inspection trap in the kitchen floor. Once again all appeared dry underneath although a 100% clear view was impeded by the little "bearer walls" down there that support the floor joists, however the are small breaks in them which at the rate of 36 litres per day ad infinitum, would surely have allowed any escaping water to pass through?
I have lost the appetite for opening up any more floors today as each wasted search just leaves me with floor coverings that are only 90% as tidily fitted as they were before my explorations.
Our lounge does not have a water supply, but there are two bedrooms and the roof space where my water tanks are situated, before I've checked everything out.

Best regards - rollon65.

rollon65

Hello All,

Got the expected call from the water authority today, but no new light was shed on our situation - expecting a further call on Thursday with a decision as to whether they will replace my meter.
Managed to locate an existing trap in the lounge today.
Even though there has been no water supply to that room under our ownership, which dates back to 1972, I took the opportunity to lift the carpet and underlay so I could take a peek anyway. Dry as a bone, once again!
I spoke with my neighbour who has the same meter "creep" as we do, and found out from him that the water authority has seen fit to arrange for a gang to come out shortly and open his meter and pipework up to check that out.
Couldn't quite get my head around how his issues are progressing more positively than mine!
Only 2 more rooms to check out, plus the tanks in the roof space, then I'll be done with searching for the phantom leak!

Regards - rollon65.

rollon65

Hello All,

Got another call yesterday - little that was new.
A suggestion that I got a professional plumber in to check for leaks, but another water authority leak checker is to be dispatched to me anyway.
One further trap now opened up. The result was the same - no underfloor water.
Just the one room to go now and the roof space.
Got to say that the water grief that hundreds of souls throughout the UK are going through at this time has helped to put our own position into a less trying perspective. I feel so sorry for them all.

Regards - rollon65.

rollon65

Hello All,

10 days since my last posting and not a peep from my Water Authority in respect of resolving things. So I rang them today.
My contact was away from the desk, so I gave some brief details to a colleague who said I would be called back as soon as the contact returned.
This was at 3pm and by 5pm no-one had called.
That's more like the kind of customer care you expect these days!!!
Inspection of my roof tanks did reveal a slight drip, but this could of course mean that the water level had not risen quite sufficiently to fully activate the stop valve, as the external overflow pipe is as dry as a bone.
Only one room left now that I have not had an under-floor inspection of.

Best regards - rollon65.

rollon65

Hello once again,

Finally had another man round to try and source "the leak".
He was very thorough, but failed to turn up anything new and I have now inspected the underfloor in every room.
The guy put the "loss" of 6 - 7 litres every 4 hours down to the drip in the main water tank in the roof.
To my question as to why the overflow shows no signs at all of any drips, he suggested that this was because we were "keeping pace with it" in terms of drawing off water before the overflow level was reached.
I can't quite get my head around this initially quite plausible concept, as we are only using water at the same rate as ever (less even, as we have lately been combating the situation by "sharing a flush or two" (I know - too much information, but it has to be said!).
I can see that whilst it might account for the passage of 6 - 7 litres through the meter every 4 hours, I don't understand how this would have any bearing at all on our relatively high water consumption that it is producing if it is not converted into running it off at the same rate.
My head is beginning to hurt as a result of all this, so I may be missing the point, but I would appreciate hearing from anyone else who "gets it".

Best regards - rollon65.

Cardew

Rats in the attic drinking from main water tank - lots of rats to get through that amount of water;) Don't tell your wife!

Seriously, 6/7 litres every 4 hours(around 40 litres a day) would have to be noticed.

Have you tried depressing the ballcock arm so that the level is almost at the overflow and see what happens overnight.

rollon65

Hello once again Cardew,

As ever, your response is very much appreciated.
The big problem with any servicing of the ballcock is that the tank is set so high up in the apex of the roof space that other than getting the insulating jacket and the lid off, I would say the likelihood of being able to get at the innards is pretty remote.
I have asked around the plumbing trade and have been advised that under those circumstances, the problem could only really be resolved by draining the tank and taking it down, then re-fitting with a new ballcock.
As the best alternative to your proposal that I can come up with, I'm going to have an early night and will probably be able to achieve a slot of around 8+ hours without water use. I have a plastic bucket positioned approx. 1.25m away beneath the overflow, ready to catch any offering.
Does the guy's theory hold any water with you (pun is intended!)?
Doesn't that 6 - 7 litres (per 4 hours) water just become part of our normal ongoing water supply - after all it's not going out of the overflow or down a drain? How would/could it contribute to any increased consumption if it is not being "lost"?
I would be interested in your thoughts on that one.

Best regards - rollon65.

Cardew

rollon65 wrote: »

Does the guy's theory hold any water with you (pun is intended!)?
Doesn't that 6 - 7 litres (per 4 hours) water just become part of our normal ongoing water supply - after all it's not going out of the overflow or down a drain? How would/could it contribute to any increased consumption if it is not being "lost"?
I would be interested in your thoughts on that one.

Best regards - rollon65.

Your problem is that without inspecting the tank and ballc0ck, you have no idea if the guy's theory is correct.


I don't know the size of your tank, but mine is huge. The level of the water could be well below the level of the overflow outlet. Thus it might take 100 litres or so to be added to the tank(by the dripping) before it started to overflow.


The other possibility is that the ballc0ck mechanism is worn/gunged up. Thus it will allow water in, when some is used in the house, and then just drips with the level of water rising to a point where the ballc0ck shuts off the supply and the dripping stops.


If that is the case, then you haven't got a leak as the meter will stop registering at some point when the dripping stops.


Can't you just lift the lid enough to get an arm in and push down the ballc0ck arm until the water starts flowing from the overflow?