Savings at the time of death query

alanq

ggordster wrote: »

"there was no agreement" ... "I agreed that i would pay her back one day"

A contradiction. You need to chose your words carefully in legal matters. I assume that you meant to write that you offered to repay but that the offer was refused.

Assuming that Gran had mental capacity, if near the time of death she had no assets and she believed that there was a "debt" that needed to be repaid she would have asked you to repay the "debt".

If there had been a debt I wonder if it would now be statute barred as there had been no attempt to enforce repayment.

Mojisola

ggordster wrote: »

i was given the money but felt awful for taking it so i offered to pay the money back once my business took off as a goodwill gesture. My gran wasnt bothered and just said that there was never a problem as at the end of the day it would be left to me.

If the business has taken off and you are in a position to make a "without prejudice" goodwill offer to the relative, you could keep that as a fall-back position.

xylophone

If there isn't a loan agreement

Suppose the boot were on the other foot and the grandmother owed the money to a close family member

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/inheritancetax/how-to-value-estate/debts.htm

"A debt owed to a close friend or family member is usually accepted as being legally enforceable if one or more of the following applies:
the deceased person and the lender made a written or verbal agreement about repaying the loan when the money was lent
there's evidence that the deceased person was making repayments
There are different rules in Scotland, for example, you could use a statement from a third party to show that a loan is legally enforceable."

Presumably the converse is true ie that a debt owed to the estate is an asset of the estate and the same rules would hold good regarding the executor's being legally able to enforce repayment?

In this particular case, if the sum in question was a loan (which is unclear, see my post above), the verbal agreement would appear to have been that it was interest free, without any fixed repayment, and would fall to be treated as a gift in the event of the lender's death?

If it is agreed that the money falls to be treated as a gift, then the executor would need to have regard to http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/inheritancetax/pass-money-property/exempt-gifts.htm and possibly to http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/inheritancetax/intro/transfer-threshold.htm?

ggordster

alanq wrote: »

A contradiction. You need to chose your words carefully in legal matters. I assume that you meant to write that you offered to repay but that the offer was refused.

Assuming that Gran had mental capacity, if near the time of death she had no assets and she believed that there was a "debt" that needed to be repaid she would have asked you to repay the "debt".

Sorry my choice of words were incorrect, you are correct in saying my offer was refused. As far as she was concerned there was never a problem as if she hadnt given me the money 10 years ago her intentions were to leave it to me in the end anyway.

innovate

ggordster wrote: »

Sorry my choice of words were incorrect, you are correct in saying my offer was refused. As far as she was concerned there was never a problem as if she hadnt given me the money 10 years ago her intentions were to leave it to me in the end anyway.

As has been commented before, if there was nothing in writing, you should stay clear of recounting what's was said, not said, offered, refused etc etc.

The money is legally yours if it is in your account - unless anyone can prove you have stolen it.

If you feel a moral obligation to pay the daughter of your gran (your mum? your aunt?) any or all of the money your gran gifted to you, you should go ahead and pay them. But you shouldn't pay them because they threaten you with court action since it doesn't sound as if they have any legal ground for their claim.

mgdavid

what sort of aunt threatens to take a neice/nephew to court over 10k that was given away 10 years ago? Is the aunt desperate - or jealous - or what?

badger09

ggordster wrote: »

Hi didnt really know where to post this but here goes. About 10 years ago my grandmother gave me some money to start a business there was no agreement signed nothing was put in writing. I agreed that i would pay her back one day but she always said not to worry as when she died the money was mine anyway. Sadly my grandmother passed away from cancer and we have discovered she didnt leave a will, she had no property or other savings but now her daughter is trying to get the money my grandmother gave me 10 years ago. She has written me a letter stating i owe her this money that is in a bank account in my name......i am just wondering if she has any legal right to the money in my bank even if she can prove my grandmother original gave it to me???

Not getting into the rights/wrongs, gift/loan etc but

if your grandmother 'gave' you £10k about 10 years ago to start a business - why is it sitting in a bank account in your name?

How does your aunt know about the £10k? And how does she know that its in a bank account in your name? :cool:

mikb

ggordster wrote: »

i was given the money but felt awful for taking it so i offered to gift the money back once my business took off as a goodwill gesture.

Fixed that for you.

As others have said, where is the loan agreement? What were the payment terms? ... None? Then there's no loan. Nothing to repay.

Biggles

You really need to get your story straight. Right from post #1 you didn't make it clear whether it was a gift or a loan but it seemed clear that there was at the very least some kind of suggestion that you would repay it.

The main thing is: what has her daughter been told about this? Possibly her mother mentioned that you owed her some money? If that's the case, then your grandmother and you expected it to be repaid. That being the case, it would be an asset of the estate, to which it is entitled.

I would suggest you approach her daughter with the aim of reaching a deal; you would repay less than the full amount, she would avoid legal costs. You might both reach a figure you were happy with?

(That's without admitting that you owe anything, of course, just 'to settle things')

getmore4less

I recall that for a loan to be enforceable there has to be repayment terms otherwise it can never be called in even on death.