Started car in gear! Doh! Starter motor now dud?

TrickyWicky

cubegame wrote: »

I did try rocking it with no effect. And the fuse seems to be ok. I swapped it out for another one to be sure anyway and still nothing.

Do you have a multimeter? - If so get someone to try hitting the starter for you and then measure the voltage on the fuse (starter and battery side) and also on the starter itself.

Sometimes you may have an ok fuse but there could be another somewhere. Some starters have their own fused cable links on the actual starter motor. Some volvos are known for this. The starter itself will be ok but the fused link can blow.

Ultimately if you're getting voltage at the starter then if you can find a cheap replacement from a scrappy that might be your easiest way forward but don't be in too much of a hurry as it could be something completely different.

I have a car on the drive that was running fine one day and then refused to start. I heard two clicks from the starter and that was it. People told me the starter had jammed, the fuse had gone, the fuselink had blown etc. Checked all of them and there was nothing wrong. Turned out to be a wiring loom plug with a twitchy connection

Rodney_Trotter

F1F93 wrote: »

Sorry but this is terrible advice! NEVER jump start a modern engine. You risk frying the ECU.

Instead, charge up the battery (if indeed it is flat).

It's a 1.3 2003 fiesta. That's an old engine is it not?

cubegame

TrickyWicky wrote: »

Do you have a multimeter? - If so get someone to try hitting the starter for you and then measure the voltage on the fuse (starter and battery side) and also on the starter itself.

Sometimes you may have an ok fuse but there could be another somewhere. Some starters have their own fused cable links on the actual starter motor. Some volvos are known for this. The starter itself will be ok but the fused link can blow.

Fused cable link it is! Had the starter motor off this morning and the link between the solenoid and motor is burnt through. Looked like it has corroded mostly and then my stupidity was the final straw.

Are these generally replaceable? Or will it just need soldering?

shaun_from_Africa

TrickyWicky wrote: »

So by that token you can also never swap the battery for a new one too right? - Because the sudden connection / voltage of a nice new battery could also do the same thing?

Provided that the engine wasn't running and the ignition was turned off, there would only be a very small current draw from the battery (for the alarm/immobiliser), so no, connecting up a nice new battery isn't the same as jump starting a car.

colino

I'm not entirely sure which recovery agency or garage started the rumour about mere car owners being unable to jump start cars. It really is very simple and even complete morons manage it without spiking their delicate electronics. Then again, there is always the exception.
Perhaps with a forecourt of nearly new, but underused, modern cars the thing to do is buy a spare battery for each and keep it handy.

mrmechanic

cubegame wrote: »

Fused cable link it is! Had the starter motor off this morning and the link between the solenoid and motor is burnt through. Looked like it has corroded mostly and then my stupidity was the final straw.

Are these generally replaceable? Or will it just need soldering?

That isn't a fusible link.
It is the main braided cable that supplies the current to the motor from the solenoid.

They corrode and the excessive voltage draw starting in gear has caused it to burn through.

You won't be able to repair unless you can solder a new cable onto the windings inside the motor and keeping it insulated so it cannot short to earth.

New starter time I think

Stooby2

Or if you have a good autoelectrician near you they can do these repairs. Might be cheaper, but by the time you've hunted one down and waited for the repair, a new one could have been fitted.

petrolhead69

colino wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure which recovery agency or garage started the rumour about mere car owners being unable to jump start cars. It really is very simple and even complete morons manage it without spiking their delicate electronics. Then again, there is always the exception.
Perhaps with a forecourt of nearly new, but underused, modern cars the thing to do is buy a spare battery for each and keep it handy.

Certain cars are especially fragile electronically. I have personally seen 3 mercs suffer expensive electronic component failures after being jump started correctly by experienced mechanics. My renault on the other hand can manage that without any assistance from jump leads, but at least it isn't rusty.

Richard53

colino wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure which recovery agency or garage started the rumour about mere car owners being unable to jump start cars.

At work we have a Sealey Road Start (RS1224) which we bought for starting large vehicles and keep for general use. Our legal guys advised us to contact Sealey to see if it was suitable for using with cars owned by the general public (from the nature of the business, we get a few requests). Sealey's response was that we were not advised to use the unit on any car with modern electronics, and since there is no easy way for the non-specialist to tell the difference, we don't use it at all, except with company vehicles where we know the electrics are basic.

I was fairly cynical about this, having jump-started countless vehicles over the years, but seeing it writing from Sealey made me think again. The possible liability claim for frying a customer's expensive motor is huge, and not a risk my employer is prepared to take.

Stooby2

I have been taught that you shouldn't jump start modern cars as the voltages can spike, damaging the the numerous ECU's that modern cars have.

Rather, you should connect the two cars in the normal way, ignition off on the broken car, start the good car and let it run for ten minutes or so, revving occasionally, to get some charge into the broken car. Then stop the engine, disconnect and try and see if the broken car will start.