Leaving HL without transfer charges

lejog2003

Chris2000 wrote: »

I sent my complaint to HL today, asking for exit fees to be waived. The new charges on a portfolio of index-trackers are a significant increase.

Following earlier comments on the complaint process, whatever it says on the website, it should not be necessary to post a formal letter. HL is regulated by the FCA and their staff should be trained to recognise that any oral or written expression of dissatisfaction is a complaint and to deal with it accordingly. If they don't then maybe it's time the regulator paid them a visit to remind them of the rules.

http://fshandbook.info/FS/html/FCA/DISP/1/4

Well that's the theory, but what's happening in practice is different as you can see from this thread..

Out of interest to who should you complain about HL's failure to identify a complaint or to "explain to the complainant promptly and, in a way that is fair, clear and not misleading, its assessment of the complaint, its decision on it, and any offer of remedial action or redress". I doubt I can be bothered now, but someone might fancy having a go.

Stochasticity

socrates wrote: »

I have several Vanguard Products as part of my portfolio - HL rep tried to convince me on the phone yesterday that I was not going to be worse off - well at least she tried

What is the exact process (step by step guide for dummies) to follow for moving my portfolio?

I am sure others here would benefit from this also....

Choose a new platform.

Contact that new platform to get transfer forms (might be available on their website).

Complete the forms and return to your new platform, who will do the rest.

Ask HL if they will waive exit charges.

If they refuse, make a formal complaint to HL.

HL cave in (or the FOS intervenes).

socrates

Stochasticity wrote: »

Choose a new platform.

Contact that new platform to get transfer forms (might be available on their website).

Complete the forms and return to your new platform, who will do the rest.

Ask HL if they will waive exit charges.

If they refuse, make a formal complaint to HL.

HL cave in.

So I do not need to sell and re-buy?

Does this also apply for other funds held?

Stochasticity

socrates wrote: »

So I do not need to sell and re-buy?

Does this also apply for other funds held?

No (you can transfer in-specie/re-register the assets to the new platform without any trading) and maybe (the argument for the waiver of exit charges on active funds is a lot less watertight because you may not be subject to a price increase and the pricing changes are a direct consequence of regulation).

masonic

socrates wrote: »

What is the exact process (step by step guide for dummies) to follow for moving my portfolio?

You may wish to skip straight to step 2...

1. Contact HL and tell them you are unhappy with the changes, giving your reasons and ask for exit charges to be waived (and for the new charges not to be applied while your transfer is in progress).
2. HL will likely respond in the negative, so make a formal complaint (make sure it is clearly titled complaint and address it to Senior Client Services Manager, can be done by secure message or by post, but best to have it in writing). There is plenty of info in this thread as to what the content should be.
3. HL should respond by acknowledging they are treating the matter as a formal complaint and should provide a copy of their complaints-handling procedure document. If they don't do this, complain to them that they are in breach of their procedure and ask them to ensure your complaint is adequately investigated before issuing a further response.

Meanwhile, you can set up an account with a new provider, obtain their transfer in form and set things in motion.

4. HL will provide you with a final response, which should permit you a free exit. If not, they will also include details of how to refer the matter to the FOS, but so far I think this has been unnecessary for people who have complained.

lejog2003

socrates wrote: »

I have several Vanguard Products as part of my portfolio - HL rep tried to convince me on the phone yesterday that I was not going to be worse off - well at least she tried

What is the exact process (step by step guide for dummies) to follow for moving my portfolio?

I am sure others here would benefit from this also....

Edit: I'd do things in a slightly different order from Masonic, I think you need to initiate the transfer ASAP.

1. Decide on a new supplier and fill out their transfer in form.
2. Write to HL saying you do nor accept the new terms and are transferring. Might as well ask them at this stage ask them to waive transfer fees and any increases in platform fees that occur during the transfer process.
3. HL may or may not send you their own transfer out form, which doesn't appear on their website.
4. If HL refuse to allow you to leave freely, complain.

Best of luck.

Linton

socrates wrote: »

So I do not need to sell and re-buy?

Does this also apply for other funds held?

The transfer-in form should give you the option of either an in specie transfer or a cash transfer. If the latter, the old platform will sell your holdings. Once the cash is with your new supplier it is up to you to decide what to do with it.

masonic

lejog2003 wrote: »

Edit: I'd do things in a slightly different order from Masonic, I think you need to initiate the transfer ASAP.

Given that there is now precedent for HL agreeing not to charge the new fees on accounts that are being transferred I'm not so sure. I initiated my transfer as quickly as possible, but at that time I knew it was possible for me to escape before the new fees came into effect. I think it's highly unlikely anyone starting an in specie transfer in the next few days will complete it before the last working day in March.

There are still some new announcements expected, so I don't think there's any need to rush into a decision unless there is another reason to do so.

naedanger

Stochasticity wrote: »

... the argument for the waiver of exit charges on active funds is a lot less watertight because you may not be subject to a price increase and the pricing changes are a direct consequence of regulation ...

My view is that all customers have a watertight case for asking for their exit charges to be waived since HL have increased the charges for paper statements, increased exit costs that will apply in future and introduced new charges such as the probate valuation charge.

Also OFT guidance makes clear that even if price changes are a result of regulation they are unfair unless customers are given an opportunity to exit free of charges.

Of course customers who wish to remain for whatever reason, including that HL are competitive for them, should remain. But everyone exiting should demand that their exit charges are refunded.

(Also, technically, HL have only increased charges - they have not reduced any. It is the fund managers who have reduced their charges albeit because they are no longer going to be paying commission to HL.)

Basically the RDR has meant all companies have been free to completely redesign their charging structures. In turn for being given this freedom they must allow their customers equal freedom to choose to go elsewhere. Then competition can act to ensure fairness to suppliers and customers alike. Suppliers have complete freedom to set terms and customers have complete freedom on whether or not to accept them.

For HL to expect freedom to change its contractual terms while trying to tie its customers to those contractual terms is outrageous. (And clearly against OFT and FCA guidance.)

lejog2003

I had to wrest the promise to refund any increased charges out of HL and as ffthingamabobby said, it was like pulling a tooth, so I wouldn't say it had set a precedent. Obviously transferring sooner reduces the potential charges that could be applied, but I also took the view that the nore people that initiate transfers and complain now, the more pressure on HL and the higher likelihood of an attractive offer to stay.

No definitive answer either way, I'd agree.