Who owns original deeds to my house?

Thundercatsarego

Hi there,

I could really do with some advice...

Recently I bought a cottage that is part of a row of nine original miner's cottages from the 1800s. They are beautiful and have a lot of history behind them.

We've been searching for documents and info about the history of the properties online and speaking to neighbours and I found out something interesting... The owners previous to the ones we bought the house from had all the original deeds, documents and plans for the row of houses... all dated, stamped and with the original wax seals still on them. Apparently this couple said they would leave them with our house when they left, but they didn't, they took them.

We've asked for them back and they originally said they would send them on... then they said they'd lost them, then out of the blue they dropped 'some' (not all) of the original documents off with our neighbours but stated firmly that they 'wanted them back.'

I think this is unfair... beautiful original documents and deeds to my house and the row of cottages adjacent should stay with the houses for historical purposes... Do I have any rights at all to demand that we keep hold of the deeds as legal owners of the house now? My worry is that, if we refuse to give them back and keep the ones we have got from them, they may not send the others on at all... saying they have 'lost' them... What should I do?

Any help you can give me would be great.

Krissy

WestonDave

I'd be inclined to play softly softly on this one. They are interesting documents and they possibly lived in the house for a long time hence a sentimental attachment to them, hence wanting (for now) to keep them. However as time passes and they lose the connection with your house, they will increasingly wonder why these dusty old packets are cluttering up their house. On that basis I wouldn't for now start a row by refusing to return them - just don't, find excuses if they call etc. I'd imagine that if they aren't wound up and find others, then the natural outlet would be to pass them on to you.

Their ownership is a tricky one - in a sense they are part of the property but in another sense they relate to past transactions that you weren't part of - your recent transaction would have been done on the basis of registered titles not the old pre-reg deeds. Many people find these old documents a pain, and so a lot of them either get destroyed or find their way to the council archives (which is frankly the best place for them as they will be stored properly and be accessible for historians to reference).

I know what you mean though - my 1950's house came with the old pre-reg land titles right back to the handdrawn land maps, showing the previous owners back into the Plantagenets. However having had them nearly 8 years we've only ever had them out once and that was prompted by a potential development on part of the original estate plot that had been left in the 1950's. (Turned out for good reason as its riddled with underground springs and unstable ground - question is if that information had been in public archives would it have been raised for development now as those involved could have seen what a daft idea it was - but anyway they are still in my fire proof safe).

Thundercatsarego

Thanks for your help... Yes I think taking the softer approach would be the best way as they are being agreeable in passing on the documents to us at this moment in time.

TBagpuss

Assuming that the property is now registered, the deeds are now just historical documents, they are no longer part of the property, so they belong to the the previous owner.

I'm puzzled by your reference to "asking for them back" as it sounds as though they were never yours in the first place. If this is the case, you have no claim to them at all. If the owner of the documents (the former owner of the house) is willing to give or sell them to you then that would be nice, but you have no right to them whatsoever.

You may get further by asking if they would be willing to sell them to you.

Given that the ones which were dropped off were left on the basis that the owners want them back, if you refused to return them then you would be stealing.

Obviously if my reading of your post was wrong and the deeds do in fact belong to you, then of course you can demand that they are returned, but it sounds as though the owners were at one point willing to give their documents to your seller and then changed their minds. Which, unless the deeds were included in the contract, they were perfectly entitled to do. (and of the people who own the deeds are the last but one owner of the house, then that would be an issue between them and their buyer, not between them and you)

Goldiegirl

Everything to confirm ownership of the property is now held electronically, so, as Bagpuss says, the deeds are now just historic documents, although in this case, very desirable documents.

I imagine the owner is whoever has them in their possession. The deeds may have passed to the previous property owner when they bought the property, and, as the deeds were not required anymore to confirm ownership, they may have decided to hold on to them, because they enjoy having them.

If may be worth approaching them, to see if they will give them to you, or sell them, or failing that, let you have copies.

aliby21

I sympathise, and in your position I'd feel that the deeds 'belonged with' the house. But the previous owners of the house /current holders of the deeds clearly have an attachment to them. What I'd do in your position is invite the people to come round (so that you can return the documents that are currently with you), give them tea and cake, ask them what they know about the history of the house - i.e. make it clear how interested you are. if they can see your enthusiasm they may be more willing to give the documents over to you (possibly!).

I guess it is slightly more complicated if the documents pertain to the whole row of houses, not just yours, as it then becomes a question of which house gets to 'own' them. as WestonDave suggests, having them somewhere like an archive might be a solution.

DRP

Make copies.

To me as a new owner, it would be the information contained in the documents that was important. I've always tried to find out the history of the addresses I live at - it isn't an easy thing to do!

It would be nice to own the originals, but they aren't yours.