What does second fix include?

Marlodian

Hi sorry if this is in the wrong place, it's my first post on here.

We are in the middle of a self build and have a quote from the plumber for first and second fix of kitchens, bathrooms, heating etc of nearly £4240 labour only. Seemed a lot of money at the time and he was more than the other guys that quoted but seemed the most capable of doing a big job.

First fix done mostly, paid half the amount, second fix started today. He has arrived, looked round and said his price of second fix doesn't include installation of baths, sinks, toilets etc. his job is to make the connections only not fit anything...... And we need to put it all in place.

Am I wrong to assume second fix was all the finishing off jobs (not decorating) to leave us with a useable finished bathroom? Is this guy trying it on or is he right to surprise all his clients with an additional cost above the quote.

On the written quote it doesn't say anywhere we were expected to have anything in place and we did call him last week to ask if he needed anything on site or anything specific organising so everything was ready for when he arrived.

Is there an industry standard as to what second fix includes?

Deep breath...stay calm!!!

Ebe_Scrooge

I don't think the term "Second fix" has any legal definition, as such. But it is normally used to mean "connecting the appliances" :

http://www.channel4.com/4homes/build-renovate/building-renovating-advice/snagging-first-fix-second-fix-a-guide-to-building-jargon-10-01-13/display/page/2

I suppose in the strictest sense of things, the plumber is only obliged to do what he said on the written quote, but you could argue that, given the general and widespread understanding of the term, you would reasonably expect the appliances to be connected.

Not sure if this helps or not, sorry !

Doozergirl

He said it wasn't included?!

Second fix for a plumbing job would, in very simple terms, mean putting an end on everything you've started.

So for a plumber, first fix in the bathroom would include laying out the feeds and wastes. Second fix means coming back after tiling, plastering etc and connecting up sanitaryware and radiators to the pipes you left open during first fix and then sealing it all.

The aim being when you turn the water on, it doesn't all end up on the floor!

A plumber can't reasonably quote for a new build bathroom without intending to finish the job! I'd love to see what the quote says?

Marlodian

Thanks for the responses. The quote clearly says "1st and 2nd fix bathroom" and the items were detailed but his definition (being different to mine) isn't including installation which he failed to mention. So it is all down to the use of words and how transparent he has been in his costing........

I would never have thought of employing an electrician and then have him tell me he wired the sockets and I needed to screw them into the wall so I am frustrated that the plumber thinks this is acceptable.

I would put the quote on but I can't work out how to attach the photo! Ha never mind put a bath in place!

Doozergirl

For the future, you can create an account at a site like photobucket which will host the picture, then link it to here. There are different options on photobucket once you've uploaded the picture. I tend to use the one that copies some text that includes

phoebe1989seb

OP, that seems just plain weird.

We're doing a fairly major project on this house and have had all new electrics, plumbing as well as building a kitchen extension. Both the electrician and bathroom fitter have had to do first and second fix - over a period of two years plus as work has been done in stages - and we've never encountered any such issues.

Just before Christmas we had two shower rooms installed. As DH works from home, was formerly in the interior design industry and is doing much of the work on the house himself it was agreed with the bathroom fitter that he (bathroom fitter) would do first fix then return for second fix once DH had plastered, tiled, laid flooring etc.

On his return the bathroom fitter moved the sanitary ware into position (including free-standing vanities etc), connected everything (showers, basins, heated towel rails, taps, wall-hung loo etc etc), siliconed where necessary, tested the system and also put up all the wall-mounted accessories and wall cabinets. In fact I wasn't expecting him to fit the accessories as it wasn't on his quote

Admittedly ours wasn't your average job, taking the bathroom fitter around 17 days in total (cost just over £4000), but (large or small) imho second fix is where everything gets put into place, connected and rendered useable.

Whilst in our case DH was on hand to help where necessary (ie, helping lift the heavier/bulkier items), I would have been mightily cheesed off if our bathroom fitter had expected to only connect everything!

southcoastrgi

OP he is talking total crap & trying to take the p1ss, 2nd fix is to fit & connect everything up, tell him in no certain terms that unless he fits & connects everything up, you will employ someone else & if it comes to more than the remainer of his quote you will be invoicing him for the difference

john.h

southcoastrgi wrote: »

OP he is talking total crap & trying to take the p1ss, 2nd fix is to fit & connect everything up, tell him in no certain terms that unless he fits & connects everything up, you will employ someone else & if it comes to more than the remainer of his quote you will be invoicing him for the difference

Totally agree with this..

John...

somethingcorporate

southcoastrgi wrote: »

OP he is talking total crap & trying to take the p1ss, 2nd fix is to fit & connect everything up, tell him in no certain terms that unless he fits & connects everything up, you will employ someone else & if it comes to more than the remainer of his quote you will be invoicing him for the difference

+2.

If he's not connecting up the stuff what is he saying the 2nd fix is?

Marlodian

somethingcorporate wrote: »

If he's not connecting up the stuff what is he saying the 2nd fix is?

He only wants to do the connections not the fitting in place although this was all discussed as part of second fix he now wants to call it "installation" ......so he is saying he will charge extra for putting taps in, fastening the toilet down, siliconing to the wall.

The fixtures are all in the rooms......radiators in appropriate room with valves next to them, bathroom suite in the bathroom, I have tried to make it as simple as possible but it would be beyond me to know how to "install" a toilet which is why I employed a company to do it.

Thanks everyone, I suppose he is banking on us not wanting to have a difficult conversation but hasn't been back since Monday, I have to admit I am weary of trades coming and trying to add extras......some have been fantastic (the builder, electrician and the (second) plasterer) so it's not all bad!

john.h

Its a plumbers job to install all of those items, what does he expect you to do? hire another plumber to install the items then he connect them up?
Throw him out...

John...