Does a resettable surge protectors exist?

katiesam

Hi all,

Shortly before Christmas, we noticed the green light on our surge tower had gone out. The 2nd surge tower upstairs was fine.

We ordered a replacement surge tower that has just been delivered and now I've noticed that the upstairs tower no longer has a green light either.

This will be the 4th or 5th surge tower that has stopped working in the last 3 or so years.

It's getting rather expensive to keep replacing them and we're beginning to wonder whether it's worth it. On the other hand, if they are actually doing what they're designed to do and protecting the equipment that's plugged into them, then clearly it is a worthwhile investment.

So my question is this - is there such a thing as a surge protection tower that can be reset? I saw mention of one on a hotukdeals thread but the poster wasn't forthcoming with further information and I've been unable to find anything on google.

Or if anyone has any other solutions, I'd be very happy to hear them!

Thanks in advance for any replies.

teddysmum

Could it just be the lights that fail ?

katiesam

We're beginning to wonder that ourselves!

westom

katiesam wrote: »

So my question is this - is there such a thing as a surge protection tower that can be reset?

A protector that resets is not doing protection. You have assumed a protector will somehow block or absorb a surge. Does not work that way. But the myth is how ineffective protectors get promoted for obscene profit.

First determine what that light is reporting. For example, some lights only report power is on. Other lights report "Protection Good". The "Protection Good" light only reports one type of failure. Protector circuits disconnected as fast as possible to avert a fire. IOW that light only reports that a protector was grossly undersized. Protector parts disconnected ASAP while leaving a surge connected to attached appliances.

Where is the protection. All appliances already have robust protection. Your concern if another transient so much larger as to even overwhelm that existing internal protection.

Devices that are completely different, unfortunately, share a common name. Effective protection means earthing a 'whole house' protector that remains functional even after a direct lightning strike. These superior solutions cost about $1 per protected appliance. Has spec numbers that say why it does not fail. And are located where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate harmlessly outside the building.

That critical number says why grossly undersized protectors fail. Failing, gets many to recommend them and buy more. How many joules does your protector claim to absorb? Hundreds? A completely different device (also called a protector) remains functional when earthing surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules. Do not ignore numbers.

No soundbyte answer is possible for a well proven solution. Facts with numbers say why informed consumers divert money from plug-in protectors to the well proven and other solution.

So what is that light reporting? Is it a Protector Good light that reports a grossly undersized protector? Or just a power on light?

Ectophile

I have absolutely no idea what westom is trying to say.

The bit that fails in most surge protectors is a "voltage dependent resistor" or "varistor". It's a device that does very little when the mains voltage is normal, but the resistance drops substantially when the voltage is too high. This shorts out the surge, protecting the appliances plugged in.

However, every time the varistor activates, it can be damaged by the energy it is having to dissipate. Eventually, it fails completely, and the surge protection no longer works.

westom

Ectophile wrote: »

I have absolutely no idea what westom is trying to say.

Anything that is understood in a first reading is was already known. Anything that is new information usually takes at least three rereads to comprehend. And is rarely found in soundbyte reasoning (ie one paragraph). Soundbyte often identifies one manipulated by hearsay or advertising.

An MOV (varistor) does not do protection. That half truth about voltage dependent resistors forgets what the actual problem (reason for damage) is and how damage is averted. Numbers that define reality (what his ineffective varistor really does) are seven paragraphs down.

Everytime a varistor activates, it can be damaged. True as long as one ignores numbers. If a varistor no longer works after a few surges, then it was grossly undersized - a potential house fire.

Properly designed varistors do not stop working after a few surges. Properly designed varistors only degrade. That means it remains working and its voltage (Vb) changes >10%. How many surges will degrade effective (properly designed) protectors? One varistor manufaturer describes the test with numbers:

The change of Vb shall be measured after the impulse listed below is applied 10,000 times continuously with the interval of ten seconds at room temperature.

10,000 surges and it only degrades? Despite hearsay, it does not fail? Then why do so many believe varistors stop working after a few or only one surge? Why do so many believe catastrophic damage is normal? Facts with numbers take longer to explain. Most of us only want soundbytes. Soundbyte logic cannot describe what is important for surge protection. Soundbyte logic is why scams are so profitable.

We know the longer post 1) describes what an effective protector does and 2) also provided numbers. Number are essential. A recommendations without numbers is classic junk science.

1) Varistors that fail are for surges that typically do not damage appliances. 2) A 'protector damaged' light only reports that the protector was so grossly undersized that only a thermal fuse (the emergency backup device) averted a fire. These grossly undersized protectors have caused house fires (as APC admitted last October). 3) Protectors that are not connected low impedance (ie 'less than 10 feet') to single point earth ground are not for and do not claim effective protection. 4) Most, who recommend protectors without even discussing the manufacture specification numbers, are preaching urban myths and hearsay. Honest answers always include perspective - the numbers. Where do hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate? The honest recommendation always answers that question with numbers.

As promised above, let's put numbers to the voltage dependent resistor (varistor). A surge incoming on AC mains approaches the protector. Numbers on each protector box state 330 volts. That means 5000 volts on the black wire is shunted by a varistor to the green and white wires. So 5000 volts is on the black wire. 4670 volts are now on the green and white wire. What has that varistor done? It simply gave a surge more paths (all three wires) to find earth destructively via nearby (attached) appliances. Where is the protection? It does not exist once we include electrical concepts that are 'forgotten' in hearsay.

The voltage dependent resistor (varistor) soundbyte forgot to discuss the entire circuit. And did not even list the number of joules it would absorb. Protectors too close to appliances and too far from earth ground even have a history of making appliance damage easier.

But again, reality is not found in soundbyte logic. A majority who want soundbyte answers are easily deceived by protectors promoted in advertising; rather than solutions defined by science and 100 years of well proven experience.

Special attention to the OP. Protectors that fail after a few or one surge are so grossly undersized to promote a scam. Because when it fails, the naive assume it did something useful. The effective and well proven solution does not fail. Which means nobody even knew a surge existed. Others using the well proven solution would not see damage and not know a superior solution routinely averts surge damage. Even voltage dependent resistors do not fail. Because the superior solution is also recommended with numbers and due to over 100 years of well proven experience.

The superior solution means its light does not report protector failure even ten years later. A superior solution also costs about $1 per protected appliance - another number. Superior solutions require more than one paragraph (a soundbyte).

Ben84

I wonder how much use they are? Mainly because the components in surge protectors are neither bulky or expensive (basically some resistors across the live and earth, possibly a magnet), so if manufacturers of appliances thought these were needed they could install them in the appliance itself - but they don't. I can only assume that they believe they wouldn't add much benefit.

westom

Ben84 wrote: »

Mainly because the components in surge protectors are neither bulky or expensive (basically some resistors across the live and earth, possibly a magnet), so if manufacturers of appliances thought these were needed they could install them in the appliance itself - but they don't.

They do. International design standards even 40 years ago (long before PCs existed) defined how much each appliance must withstand without damage. Numerous other designs did this without varistors. At least one such design solution was described previously.

Best protection at an appliance is already inside each appliance. Including dimmer switches and bathroom GFCIs. Your concern is a rare transient so large as to even overwhelm that protection. No plug-in protector claims to protect from that type of transient. Don't take my word for it. Note many plug-in protectors and UPS specifications that do not even discuss the various type of transients.

A typically destructive surge can be hundreds of thousands of joules (How many joules does a protector claim to absorb? - only hundreds?) Just another reason why informed consumers, instead, earth a 'whole house' protector. So that protection already inside all appliances is not overwhelmed. And to protect plug-in protectors.

As stated previously. And repeated because it separates hearsay from science. Protection is always about and provided by what absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules. Useful recommendations discuss these relevant numbers.

Appreciate what is done for greater profit. Take a $3 power strip. Add some ten cent protector parts. Then sell it for $25 or $60. Monster would even apply more expensive paint to sell it for $100. A surge may be too tiny to overwhelm protection already inside every appliance. And destroy a grossly undersized protector - as the OP may have posted. The naive *know* a protector sacrificed itself to save the appliance. Nonsense. No appliance damage is traceable to superior protection already inside every appliance.

muckybutt

MK do surge protected sockets with replaceable cartridges should they fail.

Page 5 & 6 technical info

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