PCN on liverpool airport

magiel

Hi to all.

I really need your help in the following matter.

I received a letter from company called "VCS" on last Saturday , 04.01.2014.
Letter is issued on 02/01/2014.
This letter is headed " PARKING CHARGE NOTICE"

The charge is£60 payable to 14 days, then £100.

I stopped only for 17 second. It was pouring rain this day, I came to airport to pick up my mother. She was waiting for me on the DROP OFF ZONE, but she decided to go and meet me on the way in to the airport, but instead of way in, she goes to the way out. So I spotted her and stopped , only for 17 second,just to load some baggage and take her to car.

The alleged contravention was detected an recorder by mobile traffic enforcement cameras and the reason for the contravention is :STOPPING ON A ROADWAYS WHERE STOPPING IS PROHIBITED.

They also mention the POFA 2012 that the driver of the motor vehicle is required to pay this PCN in full.

I don`t want to pay them cowboys anything, can you help me, how to do it? I really appreciate any help from you.

Can I use similar letter as user "CASEY RYBACK" ?
Obviously without the delay in posting, as mine letter came on time.


Best Regards Magiel

Redx

plenty of VCS and JLA threads on here , and linked in the NEWBIES - READ THIS FIRST sticky thread at the top of this forum, about 4 down

so yes use a similar appeal when you complain to popla, but use a standard template letter for a soft appeal to vcs first

post back on here when you find one suitable for VCS and not popla, then later post your popla appeal when you have a popla code from vcs

minus any personal info of course

edit , this thread looks better and more relevant

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4803657

Coupon-mad

magiel wrote: »

Can I use similar letter as user "CASEY RYBACK" ?
Obviously without the delay in posting, as mine letter came on time.

Yes, you can, just adapt it to suit your case and do not change anything by mistake to imply who was driving of course! Link for other posters:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4794563

Do VCS still mention POFA 2012 and 'keeper liability' as well? If so then complain to the BPA and DVLA by email (see the email addies in the Newbies sticky thread). There is no keeper liability at an Airport because the Act doesn't even apply...VCS know that. Remember the BPA are not on your side and you must only complain as the 'keeper' (not implying who was driving in any complaint or any email/phone discussion).

magiel

Thank you for your help.

Yes , they mention POFA 2012.

I will write word by word from PCN

"Having "Reasonable Cause" that a contravection occured through a breach of the car park terms and condition and a charge is now owed, your details were either obtained from DVLA as the registered keeper?owner of the vehicle or the registered keeper has named you as the driver at the time of contravection.If you belive your data has been used inappropriately or is incorrect you may ontact the Information Commisioner or the DVLA and raise your concerns.
The above photographic evidence and data is held on file to support this claim in accordance with the Data Protecton Act 1998.
The data is used for the sole purpose of pursiung settlement of this PCN.

You are notifed under Paragraph 9(2) (b) of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedom Act 2012 that the drivr of the motor vehicle is required to pay this PCN in full.

Regards
Magiel

magiel

Hi again.
What you guys think about it.
Just copy from CaseyRyback and change to my circumstances.
Is it any good or shoud I change it completely?

Re fake PCN number xxxxxxxxxx

I am writing to you as I am the registered keeper of vehicle registration number xxxxxx and was sent a fake parking ticket from yourselves.

Under the BPA Code of Practice you have a duty as an AOS member to clearly signpost an area you wish to enforce. Those signs must be visible an readable when a driver is still in the car, but at Liverpool Airport you have failed in this . The driver of the vehicle looked carefully but in the rain condition the signage are unreadable.

If you wish to enforce a no-stopping zone in one place and provide a drop-off area in another, then this must be readable 24/7 at all daylight and weather condition crystal clearly ( U.S. style ) with multiple signs in order to avoid any possibility of confusion and forcing drivers to stop to read the signs.
In fact the driver contends it was not clear at all and in difficult weather condition the signs on the entrance to the Liverpool airport are not visible at all. Your signage failure not only breaches your own industry code but is also unfair and a breach of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 and the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

The driver entered into no contract with Vehicle Control Services LTD and as the registered keeper I am not liable either. Unfortunately for you, due to your own disregard of the BPA Code of Practice you have failed to establish 'keeper liability' as defined in the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA).

Your company would have been well aware of these facts when it took the decision to send out the Notice to Keeper. You have misrepresented the legal position in the full knowledge that no such keeper liability existed.
In addition, Liverpool Airport land is covered by statutory byelaws and as such I believe it is not 'relevant land' as defined in Schedule 4 at all. Back to the drawing board with this site then, VCS, because it appears to me that you can't rely on the POFA here. Would you prefer that POPLA confirms it?

In your letter you are claiming 100£ to be paid and I am just wondering what pricing is that for a 17 second stopping, what is in no way can be considered as parking. You have failed to indicate in the letter the amount of parking charge but you already have given a verdict.
Also I do find your letter contradicting itself. Failing to park in a designated area means to me that the driver of the vehicle did not park then you issue a fake parking charge notice where no parking taken place. If no parking than no charge,hope you are with me on this? Issuing tickets for stopping wrongly is the job of the Police as they have confirmed.

In addition, if you pursue the matter against me as registered keeper when you have no lawful excuse and cannot rely on 'keeper liability' at all in this instance, you will be guilty of harassment which is another specific breach of the EA and of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

If VCS refuse to cancel this 'ticket' then I invite you to reply to me at the above address stating your reasons and giving me a POPLA code.
Please cancel your invoice or forward a popla verification code to appeal independently within 35 days of this letter.
I will be more than happy to show POPLA the various breaches relating to this ticket and to call into question your lawful status and your attempt to blindly rely upon the POFA when Schedule 4 does not apply on Airport land. I will, of course, require a copy of your contract to be shown to POPLA - among other evidence - and the POPLA decision will be, as ever, at your expense.

I suggest it's cheaper and fairer for VCS to address these issues and now spend some quality time cancelling this so-called 'parking' ticket, putting right your signage!
Please note; I do not take it kindly being threathened with some debt collectors and legal actions!
In the mean time please kindly inform and attach necessary copies to confirm on what ground did you obtain my personal data from DVLA as your serious failure has caused me to submit a formal complaint to the DVLA.
I do expect not to receive a ‘generic’ template response and which fails to address the specific issues that I have raised with you.
No further correspondence will be entered into.

Coupon-mad

''You are notifed under Paragraph 9(2) (b) of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedom Act 2012 that the driver of the motor vehicle is required to pay this PCN in full.''

The above is the bit they are not allowed to use - they must not mention the Act as it's not relevant, they may just as well mention the Theft Act or something! That's the sentence to point out to the BPA and DVLA when you email them.

Your appeal is fine except a couple of typos and tweaks, e.g. 'condition' should be 'conditions', as in:

The driver of the vehicle looked carefully but in the rainy conditions the signs were apparently unreadable and did not face the moving traffic, as one would expect clearway signage to do.

magiel

Hello again.

Yes, I was very tired yesterday and didn`t check the errors, but will check and do it correctly before sending letter to VCS.

But I just look again on CaseyRyback case and the main reason, why he won, was a delay in delivering the fake PCN.
What could be the main reason in my case?No GPEOL or the incorrect use of Protection of Freedom Act 2012?

I know that I should send the letter with certificate of posting to the VCS or just email them? Or both?

What will be the best form of complying in my case to DVLA and BPA?
I have a very big problem with finding the right words to use in formal language, so your help is ..there is no words to describe it, but without this forum and you guys I never would even think about appeal! Thank you again, especially you, Coupon-mad!!!

Should I email the BPA and DVLA the same letter as to the VCS?

I know that my questions may sound stupid, but maybe may case step by step will help others to fight against them cowboys and scammers!

Regards

Coupon-mad

It will likely be no GPEOL. And the ''newbies thread'' is a step by step example of how to help newbies fight! We can't write these from scratch every time.

You send a complaint to the BPA and DVLA, a short complaint. NOT the appeal letter!

magiel

Hello again

After few more searches and infos from "newbies thread" I have produced the complaint to BPA and DVLA.
What you think?



I wish to complain on the following counts about the attached VCS notice and their signage:

- The driver entered into no contract with Vehicle Control Services LTD and the registered keeper either. Under the BPA Code of Practice VCS has failed to establish 'keeper liability' as defined in the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA).

- If you reply to tell me that VCS are not relying upon POFA 2012 then how exactly is a motorist supposed to know the difference and make an informed decision when private parking companies, the BPA Ltd and the DVLA seem to be in collusion over this wholly misleading two-tier system?

- What was the point of POFA 2012 if the BPA Ltd and the DVLA collude to allow PPCs to sidestep it to avoid the parts in Schedule 4 that do not suit them? Can I avoid the parts that do not suit me? I wish to lodge an official complaint about the DVLA supplying my data to VCS under these spurious circumstances.

- Liverpool Airport land is covered by statutory bylaws and as such, I understand it is not 'relevant land' as defined in Schedule 4 at all. Why is a PPC allowed to issue misleading Notices which mimic those which relate to POFA, on land which is likely to be outwith POFA? Why is the DVLA issuing data for parking charges on such land when there is no reasonable cause? Bylaws already apply and registered keeper liability doesn't - so why does the BPA Ltd and the DVLA collude to continue to allow PPCs to obtain registered keeper data relating to private ticketing on such sites?

- The signage is in breach of the BPA Code of Practice because it fails to make clear to moving traffic that this is (apparently) supposed to be a 'no-stopping zone'. The amount of DVLA requests for this place (which the BPA Ltd will be aware of too) shows it to be a cash-cow for VCS which the BPA Ltd and the DVLA continue to support.

- When is the BPA Ltd going to take sanctions against PPCs like VCS which it seems to me, routinely 'milk' Airport visitors by issuing fake PCNs where the signage is wholly inadequate to communicate any restriction prominently enough? Lack of clear signage is sanctionable under the terms of the BPA CoP. The signage here is completely unfit for purpose.

Redx

I would also mention that the PCN is a parking charge and the vehicle was not parked at any time and certainly not in designated parking areas (so a parking charge cannot be enforced when a vehicle driver has not parked and never intended to)

I would also mention it is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss too , also that the signs are not BPA compliant either, especially not for "clearways"

in theory you would ask for a popla code if the charge is not cancelled , and that if you win a counter claim will be put forwarded for damages, as mentioned by prankster and also listed in the newbies thread too

the short version is thus

Dear VCS,

As the registered keeper of (reg) I'm in receipt of your parking invoice xxxxxx dated xxxxxx. I wish to invoke your appeals process as all liability to your company is denied on the following:

1) The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner
2) Your signage does not comply with the BPA Code of Practice
3) You are not the landowner and do not have the capacity to offer contracts or to bring a claim for trespass

These points and others will be raised with Popla should you not accept this appeal, and you will be expected to provide a full breakdown of your alleged loss, and your full unredacted contract with the landowner.

If you do reject the challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my expenses from you. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses, legal fees, etc. By continuing to pursue me you agree to pay these costs when I prevail.

Please issue your cancellation within 35 days of this letter, or forward a popla verification code.

Faithfully