Train annual season ticket loophole?

ExcelPro

Hi all,

Aside from the debate on claiming delay compensation, I wanted to confirm that in relation to my original post (buying an annual season ticket from Basingstoke to London Terminals 'any permitted route'), I have had confirmation that travelling from Bramley is valid using this ticket.

Here is the response I received from National Rail Enquiries (this was their second response, because at first the advisor didn't quite get what I was talking about).

"Hi Chris
Thank you for your response.

While the Season ticket is not displayed as valid to travel from Bramley, I understand you’ve received contradictory information from the ticket office. I have contacted South West Trains who have confirmed that you are allowed to travel from Bramley to London Waterloo with an Annual Season ticket between Basingstoke and London Terminals. As such, you can purchase the ticket and travel.

I have also highlighted this issue to our Information Team and asked them to investigate further.

Thanks again for your email and for allowing me the opportunity to look into this for you.

Regards

Customer Relations Advisor
National Rail Enquiries"

In terms of claiming delay compensation for my existing season ticket that's about to run out, I will probably buy the new ticket at Basingstoke or Waterloo and will just trust the ticket office to refund delay compensation as they see fit (I must admit I haven't fully read the arguments formed in this thread about the delay compensation).

All I can say is that, if you know anyone that buys a season ticket from Bramley, Mortimer, or even Reading, to London Terminals... they might as well buy the Basingstoke to London Terminals (any permitted route) ticket which will either save them money (Mortimer and Bramley if they travel to Waterloo) or just gain the ability to travel to all stations on the route they don't currently take into London, any time they like (i.e. weekends).

Pass it on!

Chris

geordie_taxi

bb21 wrote: »

But that is not "claiming off SWT or FGW" as you have put it. If that is your interpretation of the term then it is a rather strange one.

It maybe strange to you but it is helpful to others on how to claim rightful compensation. A lot of people on MSE wouldn't have realised that they're entitled to season ticket compo and all I was doing was correctly advising on how to do that.

All your posts have done is confused and is not very helpful at all.

bb21 wrote: »

are you suggesting that you can therefore claim off First ScotRail? That's absurd.

Why are you posting this rubbish, I never made this suggestion, you seem to make a lot of assumptions without due fact.

bb21 wrote: »

On the issue of which TOC's performance figure (hence any resultant discount) you can claim against, which I suspect is what you really meant, I have checked with senior personnel in the industry over the last two days, and the response I got is that for season ticket compensation purposes, the flow normally falls under one of the flow-owner's (in this case FGW's) service groups. There is provision for allocating a service group from a different TOC should the passenger wish to raise a dispute, but again there is a set procedure (I have quoted from The Manual below).

Irrelevant and confusing, most people on MSE are only interested on where and how to claim compensation. Preaching flows, flow owners and service groups to look the big I am, just confuses people more and isn't helpful.

bb21 wrote: »

so it is far from your claim that the passenger has the freedom of choice to claim off whoever's performance figures (hence discounts offered).

You assumed I meant that, when in fact all I wanted to do was correctly let people know their entitled to compo and where to claim.

bb21 wrote: »

I am getting rather tired of all this now, so unless you have anything constructive to add rather than name-calling I would recommend that you do some refresher training on fares matters with whoever did your accreditation because you appear to be confusing not only other forum members, but yourself too.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha stop, stop my ribs, ha ha ha etc! , first your chastise me for playground antics then you post that, oh the hypocrisy.

Anyway as my advice has been correct throughout this thread it is your advice on fare matters that is in question and this is prevalent in your posts.

yorkie2

ExcelPro wrote: »

I have had confirmation that travelling from Bramley is valid using this ticket.

There is absolutely no doubt that Basingstoke - London is permitted equally via Reading, as it is via Woking, providing of course it is routed "Any permitted".

A Season ticket is indisputably valid at intermediate stations.

I am pleased National Rail Enquries confirm this, but I would he shocked if anyone attempted to deny that it was valid!

Anyone purchasing the marginally cheaper "via Woking" ticket from Basingstoke to London should consider upgrading their ticket to "Any permitted" because of the huge extra flexibiity, as you say.

As for compensation, if due, it's payable at the end of the period of the Season, when you renew. Though it is less clear how any compensation percentage would be calculated (ie, which "service group" is deemed appropriate), and I am not going to be commenting on that aspect of the debate.

Tigsteroonie

yorkie2 wrote: »

A Season ticket is indisputably valid at intermediate stations.

Indeed. I know many people here whose season ticket is to a station in the 'burbs of Manchester rather than Manc Piccadilly itself because of the pricing differential. They just never travel that leg of the journey.

Nick_C

I used to commute from Worthing to London. A season from Worthing to London is only valid via Brighton/Hove. I used to buy a ticket from Littlehampton. The price was the same, but it gave me the option of travelling on the Mid Sussex line (through Horsham).

A few years ago, the price was the same whether your ticket was ostensibly from Worthing or Warblington, close to Portsmouth. I had a Warblington ticket, which meant I could use my ticket at the weekend to go to Portsmouth by buying cheap Warblington - Portsmouth add on.

bb21

geordie_taxi wrote: »

Why are you posting this rubbish, I never made this suggestion, you seem to make a lot of assumptions without due fact.

Because by your logic, if you can renew your season ticket at a ticket office operated by a train company (and obtain renewal discounts if applicable) regardless of whether the train company in question is actually the one who pays out, you are "claiming off" them. If that is not what you meant, then what do you mean?

Any National Rail season ticket can be renewed at any National Rail ticket office (with a small number of exceptions) and have the correct Passenger Charter discount applied (if any). By your logic you can claim off London Midland, Virgin Trains, East Midlands Trains, etc, on this season ticket depending on where you renew your season ticket. Quoting your own post from before, maybe it is your very poor wording rather than mine.

I have already explained all I needed to so I won't be taking further part in this conversation. Have the last word if you want and feel free to dismiss anything I have said. The purpose of my posts is to inform other members accurate information to the best of my knowledge, and it doesn't really matter whether you agree with me or not. But I will not allow incorrect information to be left unchallenged.

geordie_taxi

bb21 wrote: »

But I will not allow incorrect information to be left unchallenged.

Agreed, I accept what you're saying but on this occasion every bit of advice I have give has been correct.

Tbh it was your assumptions that have caused problems, perhaps in the future it might be best to get the full facts before hitting that 'submit' button.

This way it will stop you from making embarrassing and irrelevant posts.

jds1040

Sorry to resurrect such an old thread.

Can anyone confirm that the only permitted routes for an annual Basingstoke to London Terminals (any permitted) are:

- to Waterloo via Woking *
- via Reading and then to Paddington
- via Reading and then to Waterloo via Staines *
*change at Clapham Junction for Victoria, change at Waterloo / Waterloo East for London Bridge or Charing Cross.

If there are any other permitted routes, e.g. via Reading then Guildford, then Waterloo via Woking, I would be most interested.

Thanks,

John

jds1040

From the ATOC Routeing Guide homepage (unable to post link due to site settings):

New Dataset RJRG0336 published 16/01/2015

To allow travel between Basingstoke and London via Reading, Wokingham, Ascot, Feltham to London Waterloo

Map sequences added:

Basingstoke (BSK) and LONDON GROUP (G01) - added sequence 'PZ+WX'

Whether this was partly or solely as a result of my emails to ATOC, SWT and FGW or my tweets to SWT and FGW, I don't know.

yorkie2

jds1040 wrote: »

Whether this was partly or solely as a result of my emails to ATOC, SWT and FGW or my tweets to SWT and FGW, I don't know.

Probably a result of ATOC reading the RailUK forum - that's happened before, both with positive easements and negative easements!