Private Land Parking ticket

Jack_spratt

Hi,
I received a windscreen parking ticket for parking in a residential parking bay which required a permit, the permit was on the dashboard but on returning had fallen off, I am the owner but not the driver of the car at the time. The private company was Secureaspace. The fine was £100 reduced to £60 if paid within 2 weeks. I sent an appeal explaining the permit falling off which they rejected, they have given me a POPLA number. I have only recently seen this website & now realise there were other points that I should have appealed upon. Should I go back to Secureaspace with a follow up appeal or should I just draft a letter to POPLA with the number they have sent?
Thankyou in advance, I really wish I'd found this website sooner.

Redx

you draft up a popla appeal and you send it to popla before its 28 day deadline for receiving them is up (its sacrosanct and immovable)

so check the popla code is valid and get it done asap

more details in the NEWBIES sticky thread at the top of this forum, about 4 down

AoD

No, it doesn't matter what you appealed to the PPC. Your POPLA appeal is what matters - no GPEOL, no contract, invalid signs etc. The stickies will be your guide!

Post back once done and the experts here will check it over for you.

Jack_spratt

Brilliant, thanks guys. Will check out the threads.

Coupon-mad

You need to read the examples in 'How to win at POPLA' the link in the 'NEWBIES read this first!' sticky thread.

Jack_spratt

Hi, I am going to appeal on the following points, can you let me know if I should add any photos, witness statements also or just keep it simple?

1) The driver of the car had a valid permit from the person who rents the flat in the car, therefore no loss to the land owner has taken place.
2) There is no genuine pre-estimate of loss that can warrant the fine for parking on this land.
3) The signs at this site do not comply with the BPA code of practice.
4) The person who rents the flat telephoned the housing association who said that they had no interest in this matter, therefore, I believe that Secureaspace have no proprietary interest in the land & so are therefore unable to enter a contract with the motorist.

Redx

seems a fair starter, but check it against this template https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816165 and try to do it in the same manner of numbered bullet points followed by expanded appeal sections (again numbered)

also make sure that not a gpeol , no contract and bad signage are definitely in there, add any of your points at the end , so after the main appeal points above

do not use the word FINE, its not a fine and that is an incorrect legal term in this case

its a parking charge only, an invoice , not a fine and not a penalty either

ps:- yes you can include any evidence you like, bearing in mind the ppc will see this evidence, also that if its in mitigation it wont affect the popla outcome

the main reasons for popla to uphold your appeal will be not a gpeol, no contract or bad signage, they rarely if ever rule on anything different , so 3 golden points and the rest maybe not so good put worth putting in even if they get overlooked

Jack_spratt

Hello again, this is my draft appeal to POPLA, would someone be kind enough to cast an eye over it for me & let me know if its ok? Thanks for all your help, its much appreciated.

POPLA Verification Code XXXXXX
Parking Charge Notice Number (PCN): XXXXXX
Date of Issue: XX/12/2013
PCN Issuer: Secureaspace

I am the registered keeper of vehicle Reg: XXXXXX and I contend that I am not liable for the parking charge notice number XXXXXX. I wish to appeal against the PCN notice on the following grounds & would ask that they are all considered.

1) There is no genuine pre-estimate of loss that can warrant the charge for parking on this land.
2) The signs at this site do not comply with the BPA code of practice.
3) Contract with the landowner - Not compliant with the BPA code of practice and/or no legal status to offer parking or enforce charges


1) The signage states that it is a “Contractual Agreement” & a PCN would be issued for failure to comply with the parking conditions. This wording indicates that the parking charge represents damages for a breach of the parking contract. Secureaspace have failed to show how this charge was arrived at and to break down exactly how it can be applied and show a 'loss' flowing from the specific event in question.

There can have been no loss arising from this incident either to Secureaspace or to the land owner. Neither can Secureaspace lawfully include their operational day-to-day running costs in enforcing parking restrictions at the site (for example, by erecting signage and employing administration staff) in any 'loss' claimed. This does not represent a loss resulting from a breach of the alleged parking contract. In other words, if no breach had occurred, the cost of parking enforcement would still have been the same. This has been quoted by POPLA itself whilst making decisions in a number of recent similar cases.

I contend there can be no loss shown whatsoever; no pre-estimate (prior to starting to 'charge for breaches' at this site) has been prepared or considered in advance. The charge that was levied is punitive and therefore void (i.e. unenforceable).



2) Following receipt of the charge, I have personally visited the site in question. There are no signs or any parking terms that can be seen when driving into this car park. Other signs displayed in the area are too high and too small for any driver to see, read or understand when parking. Secureaspace needs to show evidence and signage map/photos on this point - specifically showing the height of the signs and where they are at the entrance, whether a driver still in a car can see and read them when deciding to drive in. The BPA Code of Practice states “entrance signs, located at the entrance to the car park, must tell drivers that the car park is managed and that there are terms and conditions which they must be aware of. “
I believe the signs failed to properly and clearly warn/inform the driver of the terms in this car park as they failed to comply with the BPA Code of Practice appendix B. I require the operator to provide photographic evidence that proves otherwise.


3) The occupier of the flat telephoned the housing association who said that they had no interest in this matter, therefore, I believe that Secureaspace have no proprietary interest in the land & so are therefore unable to enter a contract with the motorist.
The operator does not own this car park and are assumed to be merely agents for the landowner or legal occupier. In the PCN and also their rejection letter, the operator has not provided me with any evidence to suggest that it is lawfully entitled to demand money from a driver or keeper, since they do not own nor have any interest or assignment of title of the land in question.
I require Secureaspace to provide copy of any contracts giving them authority to issue legal proceedings as agent on behalf of the landowner - as well as providing the name and serviceable address of the landowner in order that I contact them directly in order to address any conflict with the information provided. A signed witness statement stating that someone has seen a contract is insufficient, as is a document which simply claims that such a contract of agreement exists.



I therefore respectfully request that my appeal is upheld and the charge is dismissed.

Coupon-mad

Does it state 'failure to comply' in those words on the sign? Can we see a picture as I am concerned in case it is worded wholly as a 'contractual agreement'.

Don't send the appeal off (unless your 28 days is up!) until we've got this right for you. Points about no GPEOL are only winners if the signage or PCN Notice says 'failure to comply' or 'breach', so does it?

And do you think this was self-ticketing by a resident or local security chappie? I have an extra paragraph you can use, if so. Check the PPC's website to see if their usual business model is 'self ticketing'.

And you can add to the middle point, so I suggest:

2) Following receipt of the charge, I have personally visited the site in question. There are no signs or any parking terms that can be seen when driving into this car park. Other signs are too high and too small for any driver to see, read or understand when parking. Secureaspace needs to show evidence and signage map/photos on this point - specifically showing the height of the signs and where they are at the entrance, whether a driver still in a car can see and read them when deciding to drive in. The BPA Code of Practice states “entrance signs, located at the entrance to the car park, must tell drivers that the car park is managed and that there are terms and conditions which they must be aware of.'' I believe the signs failed to properly and clearly warn/inform the driver of the terms in this car park as they failed to comply with the BPA Code of Practice appendix B and failed to establish any contract with the driver prior to parking.

In a broadly comparable January 2014 POPLA decision number 1773123003, the Assessor upheld the appeal on 'entrance signage' and said 'As the Appellant submits that the terms of parking were not displayed clearly enough, the onus is then on the Operator to demonstrate that the signs at the time and location in question were sufficiently clear. The Operator has produced pictures of two signs on site but I cannot tell the location of these signs. The Operator has also produced a site map showing where signs are located.I cannot find on the balance of probabilities, where the Appellant submits there was no entrance sign at the material time, that the appellant would have seen signs if parked near the front half of the car park. Taking together all of the evidence before me, I must find that the Operator has failed to produce sufficient evidence to demonstrate that it had taken reasonable steps to bring the terms of parking to the attention of the Appellant''.

Jack_spratt

[FONT=&quot]Thanks Coupon-mad, it doesn't have the words failure to comply or breach on the sign (hopefully the link below will work as I can't upload photos yet). I believe that the ticketing would have been done by either a resident or someone from the housing association office which is nearby, there is a self ticketing section on the Secureaspace website, a part of this section states "[/FONT]We take care of the rest and even send you £20.00 for every vehicle that pays their Parking Charge Notice to cover your administration costs."

i912.photobucket.com/albums/ac322/jackspratt6/Picture_parking_zps7b854e3f.jpg

bod1467