Modern electric heaters (not storage) and Immersion Boiler - Do I need Eco 7 deal??

MrTEAKED

Hello all im new to the forum, sorry if ive posted in the wrong section or if this has been covered before but I have tried to find out information about how best to use our heating system and everyone goes on about electric flats being best for Eco 7 tarrifs but this new flat is different and doesnt use storage heaters.

I have lived in a previous flat which absolutely raped us on an Eco7 tarrif. We had electric storage heaters and had no clue how they worked and a boiler that came on overnight. The flat was poorly insulated and we went from £120 in winter to £500 through spring on consecutive quarters which was a big worry when moving into this flat we had no clue what caused it!!

This new flat is a converted mill and was built around 8 years ago and is very well insulated. We are currently on SSE's Green Deal price fix to 2014 (sometime in March it ends) but do we actually require an Eco 7 tarrif in this flat and would we be better off with one??

The wall heaters are amazing, they heat up the rooms in a good half an hour and are not storage heaters, you switch them on and they turn on right away and auto switch off with a little "click" of the thermostat so we just put them on as and when.

The boiler we have set to come on in the morning from 6-8am and then again in the evening from 5-9pm.

Ive heard of the rumours that it may be cheaper to just keep the boiler on all the time to just "top up" the heat already in it but most people say no because of eco7 tarriffs, if i am not on eco7 though then would this be a viable option rather than use all the hot water from 6-8 having showers and then heating the entire tank up again for the 5-9pm to cover the washing up and any other showers if required?

I am really confused and I hope this message kind of makes sense to you all!

Yours Faitfhully,

Tim :beer:

[Deleted User]

Hi,

have you had a bill yet to see what you are being charged?

Do you take a regular meter reading, if so, what is your usage and tariff price.?

I would experiment with the boiler (immersion?), times. if well insulated you shouldn't need it on 6 hours a day.

I would try it an hour in the morning to see how that lasts the day.

MrTEAKED

Thanks for your quick reply!!

All i know is currently it takes about 2 hours to heat up the tank fully so i work from the idea of 2+ whatever is needed afterwards.

2 hours heating will cover a short shower (no hair wash) and a long shower (hair wash) so that is our morning covered.

In the evenings I was considering just turning the bottom immersion heater on manually and also pressing the boost button whenever needed which is probably the better option...

Ive been on a fixed price plan set at £22 per month and I am awaiting the caretaker to return from holiday to get a new meter reading, we only have the one from when we moved in because of the difficulty of reminding the caretaker that we need readings!

The boiler is pretty new and feels cold to the touch but doesnt have a heating jacket surrounding it, there is some foam insulation on some of the pipes but these pipes actually feel cold and the hot pipes are not covered... Did the installers do this wrongly do you think?
Currently i have an old duvet wrapped around the pipes and to one side of the boiler...

Ben84

It won't save money leaving the immersion heater on all the time. It costs more to keep it hot 24/7 than it does to reheat it as needed. However, with a well insulated tank and pipes, it shouldn't make a huge difference.

As for economy 7, it's really about the ratio of electricity used in the cheap hours vs. the peak rate hours. Not the amounts, but the ratio. Even someone who uses lots of energy overnight will not save if they also use lots during the day, because E7 makes the day rate higher and the night rate lower, so that the average cost per kWh is only lower if you use a decent amount more overnight than during the day.

To conclusively answer this, you'd need to know your average energy use, divided up in to day and night periods (this should be an annual figure as you'll be paying more during the day all summer too), and then the costs per kWh for each period to make an average which can be compared to a flat rate tariff. I expect you don't have many of these figures yet and collecting them would be hard too.

So it's probably going to have to be an assumption right now, and I suspect E7 would cost you more. The cheap hours are late at night and early morning when most people are asleep. Unless you have some big energy use appliances like storage heaters that can turn on automatically, or unusual energy use (basically the inverse of most households), you just won't be using enough to offset the day use.

As for your previous flat, it's possible your storage heaters were coming on for some or all of their time during the expensive day rate. Just starting a few hours early would become very costly over a quarter.

[Deleted User]

Hi,

I think you may be in for a shock when you get a catch up reading, £22 a month seems terribly low, especially if you've been using the heaters on a normal tariff.

MrTEAKED

Yeah the caretaker was saying that SSE will bite me in the !!!! when the fixed price plan ends, which is why i plan to switch and buyout of the contract towards the end of february as its £50 to buyout...

Seeing as currently the missus is a student and at home most of the day, Eco7 just sounds atrocious for us as we do use most of our electricity through the day which is probs what cost us so much in the previous flat when I was a student and she was working!

So Eco7 basically states, use no electric when ur awake and use it all at night when everyone else is asleep... So in this day and age when almost everything uses electricty, youd have to be nocturnal to work around it to actually save money?

Im gonna stick to standard rates and just try use things as little as possible!!

Nada666

MrTEAKED wrote: »

Yeah the caretaker was saying that SSE will bite me in the !!!! when the fixed price plan ends, which is why i plan to switch and buyout of the contract towards the end of february as its £50 to buyout...

It has nothing to do with being a fixed tariff for a period of time. The direct debit is not fixed. The price per kWh is fixed. A £22 per month instalment would barely cover the power for someone with gas heating, water and cooking never mind your household.

You ought to contact the supplier to alter your debit today (or make sure you start saving up several hundred pounds now.)

You are correct to stick with single rate electricity - no point switching to E7.

Nada666

(E7 works perfectly well for many non-nocturnal households. In fact, with someone at home during the day you are more likely to get the most out of it. But it needs storage heating not panel heaters. And it's not ideal if you cook a lot. Or watch plasma TVs sixteen hours a day.)

ETA: (And you need a reasonably well insulated property for storage heating to work, too.)

MrTEAKED

So SSE's "fixed price" plan is not a fixed price then?

They quoted us £22 and "fixed" it to that, the average in these flats is about £60-70 ive heard so from Sept to Jan (6 months and approx £40 less than the average = £240 behind to date)
I have been warned by the caretaker that they just add the rest on at the end of the fixed price plan so if i buy out without giving them meter readings do you think I could get away with it?

Im on an internship of £140 per week and housing benefits are about to be cut from £210 to £5 per month plus they are making me pay £120 per month in council tax whilst paying for rent, travel etc... Its gonna be imposisble to save up £240 plus the next 2-3 months extra before the end of the plan so I hope to god I can get away with buying out and leggin it!

[Deleted User]

Hi,

yes it's a fixed price per unit, not £22 a month, use what you want.

You will be charged for the number of units you have used, all the more reason to get a meter reading soon.

When you decide to buy out, you will need to give a meter reading and will be charged according to usage.

MrTEAKED

Aye we cooked a lot and use the computer a lot for our work so eco7 is definitely not the way forward!!

We have just got a Wonderbag for xmas though! Should save us quite a bit of money when we get using it but need the right cooking pot for it first!
Id post a link but as a new user it wouldnt let me...

Now its just to try exit the SSE fixed price plan early and hope they dont chase us for the meter reads... If its anything like trying to get hold of our caretaker for a reading then SSE may also be in for a challenge at attaining a reading themselves!