Lease car driver in Scotland - what to do?

nigelbb

The parking 'crime' was committed in Scotland but is the OP resident in Scotland?

Herringbone

Jings, crivens, help ma boab, you guys are fast. I go off to deep fry some buckfast and all of a sudden there's 4 replies!

Err, yes I'm resident in Scotland. Also (@Umkomaas) the ticket makes no mention of POFA or POPLA. There is a paragraph describing the appeals process which gives a mailing address or alternatively the ukpcappeals website, but no further info.

I've gathered there's differences in liability of keepers between Scotland and E/W, so if it's any help there's a statement under Late/Non Payment that after 28 days they'll get DVLA to point them in the keeper's direction.

I had thought POPLA wouldn't apply (learned that from your excellent stickies) but I see what you mean - the various levels of people dealing with this might not appreciate that. I'll try asking for a POPLA code in my appeal to UKPC, should they reject it, and see what happens.

Cheers!

pogofish

bod1467 wrote: »

Is POPLA still an available avenue for Scottish residents?

No, it has never been. POFA 2012 was only enacted in England and Wales, not Scotland and Northern Ireland (although NI may have their own scheme in the works now). So its not an avenue the PPC should even be suggesting - and some have tried it-on!

Umkomaas

Herringbone wrote: »

Jings, crivens, help ma boab, you guys are fast. I go off to deep fry some buckfast and all of a sudden there's 4 replies!

Err, yes I'm resident in Scotland. Also (@Umkomaas) the ticket makes no mention of POFA or POPLA. There is a paragraph describing the appeals process which gives a mailing address or alternatively the ukpcappeals website, but no further info.

I've gathered there's differences in liability of keepers between Scotland and E/W, so if it's any help there's a statement under Late/Non Payment that after 28 days they'll get DVLA to point them in the keeper's direction.

I had thought POPLA wouldn't apply (learned that from your excellent stickies) but I see what you mean - the various levels of people dealing with this might not appreciate that. I'll try asking for a POPLA code in my appeal to UKPC, should they reject it, and see what happens.

Cheers!

Main task here is to head them away from the lease company, so you need to appeal as the driver. You might as well, while you're at it try your arm at squeezing out a POPLA code with your rejection.

If you get that code, we can take it from there.

If you just get a rejection without a POPLA code (and maybe another further attempt to get them to give you it - lots of PPCs are dragging their heels in issuing them at present) - then you just revert to ignore mode.

You will get a blizzard of letters from the PPC and debt collectors, which can all be ignored. If they are to serve court papers that will have to be done within Scotland, but there have been some daft PPCs issuing them from Northampton Court central distribution - then you just phone the court and tell them you live in Scotland - game over for the PPC.

Here is a short, sweet and effective initial appeal. Kudos goes to Stroma for it's drafting, suggest you use this.

Dear PPC,

As the driver of (reg) I'm in receipt of your parking invoice xxxxxx dated xxxxxx. I wish to invoke your appeals process as all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:

1) The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner
2) Your signage does not comply with the BPA Code of Practice
3) You are not the landowner and do not have the capacity to offer contracts or to bring a claim for trespass

These points and others will be raised with Popla should you not accept this appeal, and you will be expected to provide a full breakdown of your alleged loss, and your full unredacted contract with the landowner.

If you do reject the challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my expenses from you. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses, legal fees, etc. By continuing to pursue me you agree to pay these costs when I prevail.

Please issue your cancellation within 35 days of this letter, or forward a POPLA verification code.

Faithfully

Herringbone

Hi there, Umkomaas

That's great, I'll go ahead with that. Just a couple of quick questions:

1) It's ok identifying the driver?

2) The appeal grounds (points 1 and 3) - are they applicable in Scottish law?

I'll do all this tomorrow morning, fire off the appeal to UKPC and inform my leasing company not to deal with any claim based on a fake PCN from this incident. Glad I've just switched from a company lease to a personal lease, my employers charged £12 for handling any correspondence related to motoring issues...

Umkomaas

1). Identifying the driver and his serviceable address is the only way to get them to back away from the RK. Did you have an alternative in mind?

2). I don't know to be honest, but I would guess that contract laws would be UK-wide, as would laws concerning trespass (any beagles out there who could confirm). Adherence to the BPA CoP is mandatory for the PPC to access motorists' data from the DVLA - so there's no regional issue here.

bod1467

The answer to points 1 and 3 is YES ... these are based on contract law (as said) and this applies UK-wide. (There may be subtle revisions in law enacted in Scotland, but the basis is identical).

Coupon-mad

Stupicar and you are in the same boat:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4838138

This situation is already covered in the 'Private Parking ticket? Newbies read this first' thread at the top of the forum. Scotland is covered and lease/hire cars are covered too, all advice is there. You may have already read it though so it was good that you checked. You should also warn the lease firm IN WRITING that you have disputed a private PCN (which is not a fine and not even their business, frankly)...but you are warning them not to respond if they get sent a letter direct -which should not happen as it's the driver's business once an appeal is in and there is no 'keeper liability' in Scotland. But spell all that out to the Fleet Manager in writing or by email - state that you have taken ownership of the scam by responding/appealing but you WILL NOT be paying so WILL NOT reimburse them if the PPC is 'norty' and writes to them and they fall for it - and keep a copy just in case.

Herringbone

Hi all,

I just wanted to say thanks very much for the speedy and helpful advice I had on here. The sticky threads you have are excellently clear - I think it's just the fact that so many people have never dealt with something like this that means we still need to ask more questions after reading them! It certainly helped me get things straight.

I have completed UKPCs appeals process and notified my lease company (who were really helpful and gave the impression of being on their drivers' side).

Now to wait for the junk mail!

Keep up the great work