Buying a listed building with no evidence of consent

tom199222

I'm close to exchange on a small grade II listed cottage, but the vendor is unable to produce any evidence that the extension out the back has any planning permission or listed building consent. Similarly, there are double glazed windows which are definitely not permitted in a listed building. The windows we can fix, but the extension has both the kitchen and bathroom in it, and if it had to go, the house would be halved in value.

The vendor is unwilling to approach the listed buildings people at the local authority, as these issues affect the other residents in the adjoining two cottages, so they could all get in hot water.

The extension is so old and unobtrusive that I'm sure it won't have to come down, but as the buyer, it is surely not my risk to take! However, the vendor is adamant that he won't go to the local authority and apply for retrospective permission.

Any advice as to how to break the deadlock?

dwhl

not sure if i'm right, am sure someone will correct me if i'm wrong....if an "extension" has been erected for more than 4 years without any objection then it is "legal"

in your situation, if there is uncertainty and the vendor is unwilling to resolve the situation then i would probably walk away. As you said yourself, you have a lot to lose.

hope this helps

david

GabbaGabbaHey

dwhl wrote: »

not sure if i'm right, am sure someone will correct me if i'm wrong....if an "extension" has been erected for more than 4 years without any objection then it is "legal"

This is not the case with Listed Buildings, which also require Listed Buildings consent. The buyer can be forced to rectify, at their own expense, any unauthorised modifications to the building, regardless of when the alterations were made or who made them. If that means removing an extension which is not covered by the listing, then that means removing the extension.

Listed Buildings require Planning Permission, Listed Buildings Consent (which is given by English Heritage for Grade II* and Grade I buildings, and by the local council - I think - for Grade II buildings), as well as meeting building regulations. Many Listed Buildings are in conservation areas, and the Conservation Officer also has a say in permitting any alterations.

The original poster must get their solicitor's advice on this, and make sure that the solicitor is aware of the regulations around Listed Buildings. Otherwise it could be a very expensive mistake. It may also be worthwhile having an informal chat with the listing department at the local council - they can be very helpful.

Also, be aware that you will need to get Listed Buildings consent to change the windows back from double glazed, and the subsequent visits to ensure that the work is done correctly may throw up other changes which have been made without consent - and for which you would be wholly liable for the costs of putting right.

theGrinch

you could potentially face criminal proceedings if alterations have been made to a listed building without consent. I do not believe they follow the same rules as unlisted buildings when it comes to certificates of lawful use.

Debt_Free_Chick

Agree with the others - you are not protected from planning regulations in a Listed Building. YOU can be made to rectify any and ALL of the alterations done by ALL previous owners, if they do not meet the requirements of Listed Building Consent - no matter how far back those alterations go. So if something was altered 20 years ago and does not meet the rules, you can be made to rectify it (if those alterations were done after the building was given Listed status).

Local Authorities have extensive statutory powers to enforce the LB requirements.

In addition, remember that LB can apply to the interior as well as the exterior. In extreme cases, LB can apply to decoration such as wall paper and, in particular, lime wash. Be very clear about what is and what is not listed and, if in any doubt, consult the Local Conservation Officer before you do ANYTHING.

You are not so much buying a house of your own - more like appointing yourself as a caretaker for an antique or museum!

tom199222

Had an update from the vendors solicitor. They have evidence of compliance with building regs dated 1980 for the extension, and prior to a certain date in 1980, planning permission included listed buildings consent.

There is still nothing on the planning searches for this date, but the extension may have been allowed under a "permitted development" whereby the previous lean-to and outside toilet could be made more permanent without formal planning consent, as long as certain criteria were met (no change in roof level, no extra land area, etc).

This sounds reasonable to me, and some research suggests that permitted developments were and are still possible without planning permission. Does this sound a reasonable?

Doozergirl

Evidenceof building regs and planning permission will be fine, even if it isn't showing up on the search. Just make sure you don't lose those documents for when you come to sell.

Permitted development doesn't exist in a Listed Building. You have to consult the Conservation Officer before you embark on any significant work, even knocking a wall through.

seabiscuit_2

There is also the point that if any extension pre-dates the listing of the property, then the extension is part of the listing. The same applies to double glazing.

Your Local Council may be able to offer grants for work done to return the building to its former glory

Doozergirl

seabiscuit wrote: »

Your Local Council may be able to offer grants for work done to return the building to its former glory

You'd be very lucky!

seabiscuit_2

Does happen tho.

FBThree

I agree with Seabiscuit in that its worth checking if the extension pre-dates the listing. We live in a house that was listed Grade II back in 1984 - and that includes (allows) a horrid aluminium double-glazed window on the top floor which was installed prior to that date! We'd have to get listed building consent to alter that back to an original window!