Care home top up fees - worried about the cost

Mojisola

Trebor16 wrote: »

The advise from AgeUK (as it was) is most certainly not correct. No third party has any liability whatsoever to pay a top up on behalf of another person.

I agree - this is AgeUK's leaflet -
https://www.ageuk.org.uk/Documents/EN-GB/Factsheets/FS60_Choice_of_accommodation_care_homes_fcs.pdf?dtrk=true
"If you would prefer to live in a care home that costs more than the local authority’s usual cost, the local authority can arrange this provided that another person is willing to meet the difference between the usual cost and the actual level of the home’s fees.
This is usually known as a top-up or third-party payment. You should not be asked to find a third party to make a top-up payment if you have moved into a more expensive home out of necessity rather than personal preference.
The local authority remains ultimately responsible for the full amount of the care home’s fees when it arranges the placement. "

Mojisola

Trebor16 wrote: »

The advise from AgeUK (as it was) is most certainly not correct. No third party has any liability whatsoever to pay a top up on behalf of another person.

I agree - this is AgeUK's leaflet -
https://www.ageuk.org.uk/Documents/EN-GB/Factsheets/FS60_Choice_of_accommodation_care_homes_fcs.pdf?dtrk=true
"If you would prefer to live in a care home that costs more than the local authority’s usual cost, the local authority can arrange this provided that another person is willing to meet the difference between the usual cost and the actual level of the home’s fees.
This is usually known as a top-up or third-party payment. You should not be asked to find a third party to make a top-up payment if you have moved into a more expensive home out of necessity rather than personal preference.
The local authority remains ultimately responsible for the full amount of the care home’s fees when it arranges the placement."

Trebor16

Paragraphs 4 & 5 in that link explain the situation very clearly.

cavework

converted wrote: »

I think everyone should read the guidance which was linked carefully - as it does not say that the council should pay the top up regardless, nor that the 3rd party is not responsible for the payment.

The council can make a contract for the full amount including the top up, but they recover this from the 3rd party - the person agreeing to the 3rd party must show that they are able to pay that amount - the council is still responsible for the whole payment if the 3rd party does not pay, but they can (and will) move the person to a home which accepts the local authorities rates.

The contract is for people who chose a more expensive alternative to facilities that are readily available from the Social services contracted homes.In this case a top up is required.
As for moving an elderly person if the top up is not paid ?
There are guidelines in place that demand a risk assessment has to take place by qualified medical personnel and if there is a risk to the health and welfare of that person social services cannot insist on moving them. 9 times out of ten the risk is deemed to be too high.
I have been in this position , check out some of my posts in the past.
The top up will increase every year
OP do your parents have a POA in place for your Gran?

BobQ

converted wrote: »

I think everyone should read the guidance which was linked carefully - as it does not say that the council should pay the top up regardless, nor that the 3rd party is not responsible for the payment.

The council can make a contract for the full amount including the top up, but they recover this from the 3rd party - the person agreeing to the 3rd party must show that they are able to pay that amount - the council is still responsible for the whole payment if the 3rd party does not pay, but they can (and will) move the person to a home which accepts the local authorities rates.

I would take the left arm off the home who only has the small top up - as most try and get as much as they can (not that I blame them) The advise from age concern is correct.

As others have said this is not entirely correct.

The parents of the OP's Nan are apparently pensioners themselves so its totally unreasonable to assume that they can afford to pay a top up. As you state, the 3rd Party must agree to a top up and be able to afford it, neither of which seem to apply.

converted

BobQ wrote: »

As others have said this is not entirely correct.

The parents of the OP's Nan are apparently pensioners themselves so its totally unreasonable to assume that they can afford to pay a top up. AS you sate the 3rd Party must agree to a top up and be able to afford it, neither of which seem to apply.

I have been in this precise position, care home asked for a £37 top up, which was agreed thinking that there was no other option - the home was suitable but they wanted a top up. I advised the social worker of the top up request, they immediately contacted the manager of the home and said it could not be afforded, the manager apologised and agreed to accept the social work rate with no top up. Most homes will try their luck, it is not a case that the top up should never be appropriate, but the OP should be aware that it is not the case that there are no circumstances in which a top up cannot be requested or entirely the responsibility of the LA

BobQ

converted wrote: »

I have been in this precise position, care home asked for a £37 top up, which was agreed thinking that there was no other option - the home was suitable but they wanted a top up. I advised the social worker of the top up request, they immediately contacted the manager of the home and said it could not be afforded, the manager apologised and agreed to accept the social work rate with no top up. Most homes will try their luck, it is not a case that the top up should never be appropriate, but the OP should be aware that it is not the case that there are no circumstances in which a top up cannot be requested or entirely the responsibility of the LA

The important point is that a third party does not have to agree to anything, whatever a home may tell them.

Your last sentence is so convoluted with negatives I hope it makes sense to others. Again the point is that they can request anything they like of anybody, there is no obligation on a third party to agree.

SandraScarlett

converted wrote: »

I have been in this precise position, care home asked for a £37 top up, which was agreed thinking that there was no other option - the home was suitable but they wanted a top up. I advised the social worker of the top up request, they immediately contacted the manager of the home and said it could not be afforded, the manager apologised and agreed to accept the social work rate with no top up. Most homes will try their luck, it is not a case that the top up should never be appropriate, but the OP should be aware that it is not the case that there are no circumstances in which a top up cannot be requested or entirely the responsibility of the LA

Many Care Homes will happily agree to what the Council will pay them, because they'll recoup their loss from the residents who are self funding.


xx

Lovelyjoolz

Thanks again all who have posted. I've had a very interesting conversation with IndependentAge.org this morning and they've told me much the same that you have here: we are not liable to top up fees.

I am sorely disappointed with Age Concern for perpetuating this myth.

I'm also fuming with the Social Worker whom I need to speak to this afternoon.

Just having a cuppa, making a few notes to clear my head and trying to be calm and rational when I phone her. Wish me luck!!

downshifter98

Good luck and hope it went fine - the myth of having no choice re paying top-ups seems to grow constantly stronger and with elderly parents myself is something that I'm starting to think about a little (Mum is severely disabled, almost bed bound); you want to do the right thing but just don't trust the authorities - thank goodness for the knowledge and experience on these forums.