Evicting a tenant ..section 21 and section 8 notices

theartfullodger

As saint says, tenancy must mention it - see HA 1988 s7(6)(b)..

Further, if rent payable 4-weekly s8 not usable at all...

Cheers!

Guest101

thesaint wrote: »

"What'd u"???
Go away(and read the 1988 Housing Act) you numpty.

A: it's called short hand.

B: congratulations you got something right for a change

56cheffy

theartfullodger wrote: »

As saint says, tenancy must mention it - see HA 1988 s7(6)(b)..

Further, if rent payable 4-weekly s8 not usable at all...

Cheers!

Thanks...
How should I word it on future agreements?

Kynthia

If you are still within the fixed term of the tenancy agreement then your S21 cannot expire before the end date. You need to issue a S8 which can be used within a fixed term. Perhaps it would be worth your while to join a landlord's association (membership is an allowable expense on your tax return) as they may be able to advice you.

56cheffy

Kynthia wrote: »

If you are still within the fixed term of the tenancy agreement then your S21 cannot expire before the end date. You need to issue a S8 which can be used within a fixed term. Perhaps it would be worth your while to join a landlord's association (membership is an allowable expense on your tax return) as they may be able to advice you.

So to clarify, in theory I could issue an S21 on the day a tenant moves in and it is valid throughout the fixed term!

Thanks. I am a member of RLA and posted on their forum last week, but as of yet no one has replied!

Kynthia

56cheffy wrote: »

So to clarify, in theory I could issue an S21 on the day a tenant moves in and it is valid throughout the fixed term!

I believe you can issue a S21 once the AST is signed, the deposit is protected and the prescribed information has been served. So that could be virtually at the start of the tenancy, although that's very bad form to have it hanging over the tenants' head throughout their tenancy. However it cannot expire before the end of the fixed term and you cannot apply for possession until it expires. It's main use is for when tenants haven't done anything wrong, so it's gives tenants more time.

A S8 is to evict for a reason, usually when the tenants are at fault in some way, so only takes 14 days to expire and can be served any time. Not many reasons will give mandatory possession, many are at the discretion of the judge to protect tenants from being made homeless unnecessarily. However rent arrears are a mandatory reason, so as long as 2 months rent is owed when you serve it (not arrears but owed so can be served the day after the second rent was due and not paid) and there is still 2 months owed at the possession hearing then you will be granted possession.

I'm surprised the RLA doesn't have documentation for landlords in this situation or an advice line.

56cheffy

Kynthia wrote: »

I believe you can issue a S21 once the AST is signed, the deposit is protected and the prescribed information has been served. So that could be virtually at the start of the tenancy, although that's very bad form to have it hanging over the tenants' head throughout their tenancy. However it cannot expire before the end of the fixed term and you cannot apply for possession until it expires. It's main use is for when tenants haven't done anything wrong, so it's gives tenants more time.

A S8 is to evict for a reason, usually when the tenants are at fault in some way, so only takes 14 days to expire and can be served any time. Not many reasons will give mandatory possession, many are at the discretion of the judge to protect tenants from being made homeless unnecessarily. However rent arrears are a mandatory reason, so as long as 2 months rent is owed when you serve it (not arrears but owed so can be served the day after the second rent was due and not paid) and there is still 2 months owed at the possession hearing then you will be granted possession.

I'm surprised the RLA doesn't have documentation for landlords in this situation or an advice line.

Thanks Kynthia......The RLA does have documentation in the form of notices to print off but I'm not sure what other help/advice they give.

I have been to see the tenant today with the intention of serving a S8 notice.

She showed me a letter has received from 'Private Housing Standards' which states "I do not think a court would say that the Notice you received 21/12/2013 is a correct Section 21 Notice"

It goes on to say:

The Notice has to:

(1) Be in writing

(2) State that a possession is required not less than two months after the date the Notice was given.

I will scan an upload the letter later.

As far as I am aware it was the correct Section 21 (1) (B) 'for use on or before the end of a fixed term of a tenancy'.

The tenancy started on 1st April 2013 and expires on 30th April 2014 (that was a mistake on my part, it should have been 31st March 2014) Does that make a difference?

With regard

(1) "State that a possession is required not less than two months after the date the Notice was given". That is stated on the S21, but instead of 'saying not less than' it says 'earlier than'

(2) As for the "be in writing" !!!!!! does that mean? I downloaded and printed in from RLA. Am I expected to hand write it?

The tenant is a really nice lady, she actually wants to leave because she really does not like the fact that she/her husband owe me monies. But it appears she can not leave until she is about to be or made homeless.

If she were to receive housing benefit that covered the rent I would be very happy for her to stay.

One other point.

I DID NOT place the deposit with an authorised scheme. Yes a big mistake on my part, but don't beat me up over it, I now know the consequences regarding them taking me to court for 3 times it's value.

BUT with the tenants agreement I did return the deposit before issuing the S21 and they subsequently used it as part payment.

I returned it because I knew that it was not possible to to serve a S21 unless the deposit is with a scheme or has been returned.

What I really need to know is if the S21 I served was the wrong one as informed by Private Housing Standards!

If it is wrong then I can not serve the S8!


Thanks.


Link to letter

http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa375/56cheffy/Housing_zps282af3d9.jpg

molerat

It looks like that letter is a generic cut and paste to suit all queries. Without seeing the S21 you served no one can tell if it is above board or not. What date did you put as the expiry date of the S21, if before the expiry of the fixed term then it is invalid. Just go in with a S8 on grounds 8 & 10.

56cheffy

molerat wrote: »

It looks like that letter is a generic cut and paste to suit all queries. Without seeing the S21 you served no one can tell if it is above board or not. What date did you put as the expiry date of the S21, if before the expiry of the fixed term then it is invalid. Just go in with a S8 on grounds 8 & 10.

This is the S21 I issued.

http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa375/56cheffy/S21_zps68e0add3.jpg

The tenant signed it as dated as proof of receipt

The agreement ends 30th April 2014 so in your opinion is the S21 invalid!

If this is the case I would appreciate some advice please.

Should I/can I issue a new one tomorrow, if so should I put a date AFTER the 30th April and also could I issue an S8 at the same time?

Thanks for all responses..much appreciated.

molerat

You cannot issue a S21 to expire before the end of the tenancy agreement and must give 2 months notice so it is invalid on both counts. Back to the drawing board and correctly issue a S21 to expire at the end of the tenancy and a S8 on grounds 8 & 10 to expire in at least 2 weeks from them receiving the notice.