POPLA appeal - PCN in private home parking bay

MikeyTen4

Hi everyone

I thought it would be tidier to start a new thread for this as a follow up to my original thread where I received lots of advice. First off, I think I need to say thank you for all of the help and information people here have provided, and that this site in general holds. It hasn't been my only source if info, but MSE has been invaluable to me through dealing with this. It's actually been an interesting learning experience - both for the legalaties and terminology involved, and the total certainty I now have that PPCs prey on people's fears and lack of knowledge to extort money illegally.

It's taken me forever to get around to it, but I've now submitted my POPLA appeal online. You can have a read of the full text here if you'd like too. Let me know what you think if you do give it the once over.

I'll update here once I hear something back of course, and if it's successful at POPLA (fingers crossed), then I hope this thread and my text will be useful to the increasing amount of people who seem to be getting done by these opportunist leeches at their own home.

MikeyTen4

As an extra note, I do want to point out that one small element of my appeal could actually have been written better, but hopefully the appeal should still do it's job, since the particular element I'm talking about might not even be necessary.

The signage in the resident's car park at my home states the terms of parking in a way that, after reading up on the rules and legislation in place, seemed as though if I claimed 'not a GPEOL', then the PPC might try to claim I haven't breached the 'contract' I made with them by parking there... I had simply agreed at the time of creating the contract (i.e. parking) that I would pay their advertised parking fee if I did not meet the free parking criteria (i.e. showing a permit). Essentially they would then be claiming that I did not breach the contract, and that they were simply trying to collect an agreed commercial sum, in turn perhaps meaning that GPEOL and 'liquidated damages' laws would not apply. I have no idea if any PPC has tried to claim something like this, or if they would.. but it was a concern. So, I included this paragraph in my GPEOL point of appeal:

MikeyTen4's_POPLA_appeal wrote:

Even in the unlikely event that Total Parking Solutions have suffered any demonstrable financial loss at all as a result of the alleged breach of contract, I suspect that the figure of £90 would be wholly disproportionate, in which case Total Parking Solutions would then be operating out of line with schedule 2(1)(e) of the ‘Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999’ which states that an “unfair term is one which has not been individually negotiated and which, contrary to the requirement of good faith, causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations under the contract to the detriment of the consumer”

Having read it through again today, this paragraph doesn't really put across the point I intended to make.

The real point I wanted to make was that IF the PPC made such a claim, then they would be admitting to operating a commercial operation on the site, and there is then other legislation which covers what they can and can't do in that respect. Namely, The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. This legislation defines an unfair term as "one which has not been individually negotiated and which, contrary to the requirement of good faith, causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations under the contract to the detriment of the consumer", and the example given, Schedule 2(1)(e), states one example of an unfair term would be one "requiring any consumer who fails to fulfil his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation". Put simply, the point here is that if they make the claim outlined above, then charging £90 as a parking fee is still out of order. This, of course is on top of the fact that they would also be admitting to running a commercial operation on private land - something I highly doubt the property management firm or the landowners would have contracted them to do. And if they tried to deny that a commercial parking operation is coverd by such legislation because, say for example, they don't provide any consumer goods, then I would point them to this - the BPA's advice for people using car parks, whom it refers to as consumers.

Essentially, this might all be totally unnecessary as I've said, but since the matter crossed my mind I just wanted to try to cover all bases. I still believe that everything about my GPEOL claim will stand up - the way their terms are laid out and their own use of language and terminology in corresponding with me says everything.

It'd be interesting to know at least what someone who maybe knows a bit more about this thinks. But anyway, there it is

The_Slithy_Tove

MikeyTen4 wrote: »

Hi everyone
I thought it would be tidier to start a new thread for this as a follow up to my original thread where I received lots of advice.

Actually, it's better to continue your original thread, as it keeps everything in one place.

Coupon-mad

Your POPLA appeal will win and it reads very well. Nice one. Let us know when you win in February!

MikeyTen4

The_Slithy_Tove wrote: »

Actually, it's better to continue your original thread, as it keeps everything in one place.

Oops :think: Sorry! If you can move these posts into the original thread and delete this, then go ahead. I just thought it might be good to have a clean break between the advice and a post showing a submitted appeal relating to a PCN issued at home, but I see your point.

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Your POPLA appeal will win and it reads very well. Nice one. Let us know when you win in February!

Awesome :T Well, I'll keep my fingers crossed and wait for a reaction then. I'll be sure to keep everyone informed on here.

If this is successful, then I'm already considering taking it further and making them sorry they ever tried it on, starting with getting them removed from the land and looking into doing them for harassment given the circumstances (although I think I might need to have had more than the PCN and the following rejection of my 'soft' appeal to do that). I'm so angry that these scumbags even dare attempt to rinse cash out of residents when they know full well they've got no right and it's not what they've been contracted to do.

4consumerrights

Oops :think: Sorry! If you can move these posts into the original thread and delete this, then go ahead. I just thought it might be good to have a clean break between the advice and a post showing a submitted appeal relating to a PCN issued at home, but I see your point.

Only a board guide can merge the threads - you can pm crabman if you want to.

Having now caught up with your threads and read your POPLA appeal I agree with Coupon Mad - it is very well written and is a sure winner.

Afterwards you may also like to write to Total Parking Solutions with a view that they place your vehicle on their white list to exempt further charges being placed - should they fail to do so then any further parking charges issued will not only be challenged but a counter-claim for damages will also be raised against them.

Contacting your landlord may also be prudent - as I'm sure he would like to know how his parking space is being farmed out to generate income for a third party.

MikeyTen4

Hi 4consumerrights Great, good to know some people with experience consider it well written.

If I do win, then I might well get back to TPS saying something like you've stated... to be totally honest I feel like being much less accommodating than that, but we'll see.

I haven't yet told my landlord about any of this, but I've been thinking a lot about the issue of TPS basically using these private allocated spaces as a method of unlawfully raking in a profit. At the very least I'm thinking I should go back to the property management firm appointed by the landowners and let them know what the outcome of all of this is if I'm successful at POPLA I contacted them before going to POPLA weeks back and they agreed to 'have a word' with TPS for me, but said that's all they could do. I've since gotten the impression more and more that they could actually have told TPS to outright drop it since they speak for the landowners - They're seemingly quite comfortable letting TPS enforce an extortion racket on their client's land? I also know who the landowners are and have their contact details too.

Anyway, I've just had a confirmation from POPLA...

We have received your appeal. This will now be sent to Total Parking Solutions Ltd. The operator will send their evidence to us and to you before the scheduled date of hearing.

Your appeal will be considered on or soon after 6 February 2014.

I'll keep you all posted