Parking Eye again - Crown Wharf, Walsall

Adam_A

Apologies for starting another thread, but I'm a bit overhwelmed by the amount of info on the site and none of the threads I've looked at quite match my situation as they seem mainly to be about "free" parking overstays.

In my case, the visit was to the Crown Wharf retail park in Walsall and two hours parking was paid for (£1-40) as soon as the car had been parked. This was for a visit to a restaurant on the retail park and payment was made for the meal by cash. I don't have a copy of the receipt for the purchase. Luckily I do, however, still have the receipt for parking from the pay machine on the car park.

10 days on and I receive a "Parking Charge Notice" from Parking Eye. It shows the car (I am the registered keeper) arriving in the afternoon, three minutes before the time on the parking receipt. It also show the car again at a time that is two hours and eight minutes after the first photo - in other words, two hours and five minutes after payment was made for two hours parking. I can't tell from the very dark second picture whether this was taken while the car was still parked or as it was leaving the (very busy) car park. How do these work? Would it have been necessary to enter the car licence number at the machine when paying for the parking? I'm unsure whether this was the case or not.

So, it says the driver has to pay a parking charge of £85, discounted to £50 if paid within 14 days of date of issue.

This seems like a total scam to me and I would have ignored it, but seeing how this advice has now changed I thought I'd better ask. Should an appeal be made to Parking Eye first? And in this case what would be the best line to take for the first "soft" appeal?

Thanks for any suggestions you can make.

Adam_A

Oops - correction. The time on the parking receipt says "PAID UNTIL" and the "Parking Charge Notice" says the picture, taken just five minutes after the PAID UNTIL time on the ticket, was of the car departing.

spacey2012

A good first soft appeal is .

The Registered keeper denies liability of the parking charge as they were a genuine customer of the retail park, any slight excess claimed by your NON VCA compliant un quantified timing ANPR DIY system was due to first obtain a ticket and a reasonable exiting period from the car park on expiration of said paid parking time, in this case a period of time which is less than the BPA guidelines instruct you to allow.

The vehicle was occupied before expirery of the ticket time and under the process of control of the driver who made said vehicle safe before moving off and exiting the car park.
The exiting time is well within guidelines issued by the BPA.

I am also unaware you require people to purchase a ticket before entering the car park, you appear to have added time on to the wrong end? as all the machines are actually in the car park there will be a natural delay in walking to the machine, I will however seek further information on building a tardis as my local newsagent is stocking a Doctor who facts magazine from next month.
Thanks, please do not forget the POPLA code with your rejection letter.
PS This is a SERVED LEGAL NOTICE of a appeal against parking charge number iu658976587 and is deemed to have been legally served one working day from postmark.

I also place you on legal notice that if fail to allow an appeal that causes the keeper to seek further redress to POPLA I shall retain the right to seek damages for losses caused by failure to adhere to BPA guidlines, the list of charges are £45 Admin fee per hour or part of.
If you are not in agreement to this schedule of reasonable admin fee charges you should adhere to BPA guidelines and strike out the parking charge which bares no resemblance to any loss either factual or estimated therefore it is in your own interests to remove the parking charge at the first stage.

Obtain proof of postage as well.
This is to put them on their obligations if they are to rely on POFA.

Adam_A

Thanks for the info. Should I mention the very short overstay time at all, do you think?

ampersand

Hello Adam, just wanted to welcome you to the fine body of men and women who have received an unenforceable invoice from arkingpie.

Don't stress about it more than you have by coming here.
One of the gallants of this Thread is sure to reinforce this, but just reply as RK, request POPLA with polite insistence.

Your nicety over pic.capture times, as opposed to paid parking time, could well become useful for others.

Do the basics; contact restaurant[if push comes to shove-it won't-they can find your txn on till.] Just follow the steps on coupon-mad's POST FOR NEWBIES.

Mine's still ongoing, so can't give you a result BUT recognise you are at that ever-decreasing-circles point of research.

May I suggest you leave it for now, then come back with a simple APPEAL post, for old hands to check.

Subscribed - kind wishes.
######
Thankyou spacey - I was still faffing about while you posted your usual clear advice:-)

Redx

read the NEWBIES - READ THIS FIRST sticky thread at the top of the forum, that tells you all you need to know, with links to various info and templates and appeal letters etc

then come back once you have your "soft appeal" sorted , and after that for POPLA guidance if you get a code for it

you are allowed at least 10 minutes overstay in order to park up or depart, the 2 hours paid for relates to the parking itself, not getting in and out of the car park

ampersand

Redx wrote: »

read the NEWBIES - READ THIS FIRST sticky thread at the top of the forum, that tells you all you need to know, with links to various info and templates and appeal letters etc

then come back once you have your "soft appeal" sorted , and after that for POPLA guidance if you get a code for it

you are allowed at least 10 minutes overstay in order to park up or depart, the 2 hours paid for relates to the parking itself, not getting in and out of the car park

Good to know Redx, thanks again.

spacey2012

No do not mention over stay, it was a short period in which the driver who was in control of the vehicle made it safe before moving away, the BPA guidelines state operators must allow a reasonable time to exit the car park.

However they will fall for it as they practically own the BPA and the head honcho's ar4e and be confident in rejecting it knowing that POPLA, who they also practically own will reject such a challenge.
This is where we get clever, as when you get your popla code, the good pundits will show you to constructing a POPLA appeal that beats them every time and you can sit smugly knowing you cost them money.

Redx

do not mention the driver either, keep any letters as registered keeper only

I would appeal it in this manner

Dear PPC

I am as the registered keeper of ( reg) and in receipt of your notice to keeper xxxxx dated xxxxxx, all liability to your company is denied, so as the RK I wish to invoke your appeals process on the following:

1) This charge is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss
2) You do not have the authority or permission to give these invoices to motorists
3) Your signage is inadequate, and does not comply with the BPA Code of Practice

You are therefore invited to cancel this charge now, or supply a popla verification code to appeal to them on rejection, where you will be asked for a detailed breakdown of the above. As you know all appeals on the points above are upheld.

Please confirm cancellation within 35 days of the above date

Faithfully

The registered keeper

I would also add in the above short letter that under the BPA CoP the driver (no names) is allowed a reasonable time to enter the car park, study the signs , pay for a ticket (photocopy or scan enclosed) and then allowed a reasonable time to exit the car park, which is certainly longer than their NTK has allowed , so you seem to be in breach of the BPA guidelines on this matter

Therefore I respectfully ask you to cancel the charge instead of paying for POPLA to cancel it instead


all you do then is scan the parking ticket you bought and attach it as proof (keep the original safe)

you should maybe mention that you were also a legitimate shopper going about your lawful business, stayed on the site and are looking for proof to prove patronage of the retailers there but dont have it to hand for now so are not enclosing it

ps:- parking eye tend to use ANPR so its likely anpr cameras at the entrance and exit that took the photos , hence why they should allow leeway for being "in transit" and reading signage

Adam_A

Okay - on this forum I found a number to contact Crown Wharf Retail Park (01922 649917). They asked if the registration of the car was correct on the ticket. It isn't, it's just a string of random characters. To be honest, I don't remember being asked to enter this at all. I suppose I must have been and impatiently entered gibberish, not understanding how the system works.

Anyway, the guy said as long as I had the ticket there was no way I should be charged for a 5 minute overstay and I should contact Parking Eye directly on 01772450970. He even told me that I needed option 1 on the automated answering system, which sort of reassured me that it was okay to contact them. Clearly he'd dealt with similar issues before and he sounded very confident.

So, I spoke to someone called Charlotte at Parking Eye and explained the situation. She asked about the car reg and I said with complete honesty that I didn't remember even being asked for it. She asked me for the reference number on the PCN and the gibberish car reg printed on my ticket, and this was enough to (apparently) satisfy her that I'd paid until 16:14 and the departure time was 16:19. She said she would send me a written notice of cancellation. Hopefully, that will sort it out.

Now I know how these damn ANPR systems work I'll be more careful. I've never had to use one before. I was so lucky to find that ticket!

Anyway, I'm still annoyed at having to even pay for parking at all, considering what over 20 of us spent in the restaurant on the day. They should have some system for reimbursing parking for genuine customers of the retail park. But that's another issue, I suppose. I won't be going back to Crown Wharf if they use this parking system. Screw 'em.

Redx

sounds like a result, the soft appeal you would have written would have basically done the same thing , or should have done

these ANPR systems work by comparing the reg numbers of the tickets bought against those entering and exiting the car park, any issues and a parking charge goes out , as in your case , especially if there is no close match , as in your case

so yes the correct reg number should be entered , easy to be wise after the fact, and the same applies to council car parks too , probably most use this reg system with or without anpr

at least you know for the future

as for PE, they will be cancelling because of what you have said and can prove to popla , so they are cutting their losses in this case as they know they cannot beat a well constructed defence