Another hospital PCN, from CPP

RicardoJ

First, the preliminaries: I'm in England, my car, I'm over 18!

So here's the deal,

Employed at a hospital, have a permit, parked in Staff space. At this point, permit wasn't on display in windscreen (was in door pocket, so admittedly, not visible).

Returning from work, PCN on windscreen, dutifully ignored until I read this forum again and the new advice NOT to ignore...

The 'offence' occurred at the end of October, NTK arrived early December (more than 28 days). Been to website but not seen any links to photos so not sure how much evidence there is of 'non-display'.

I've spoken to hospital management who (I'm told by a colleague) often get these dismissed but the main person was off for Christmas. The woman I spoke to doesn't seem to know much and says just write back but don't pay, however the non-displayed permit could be a problem. I get the feeling she doesn't really know much about PCNs etc, so not setting much store by this.

So, it's time to lodge a 'soft' appeal to CPP and I'm wondering whether my employee status affects what I put? I can't find any paperwork regarding T&Cs for my permit - probably long gone. I'm intending to revisit the car park (don't usually work at this site) to check the signage but not done so yet.

Also wondering whether to use their website appeal process or good old snail mail (with a certificate of posting) - what assurance do I have that their website won't 'lose' the appeal and take me outside the POPLA time period?

I'm slightly disheartened to see that a POPLA appeal for a similar instance was rejected, so want to maximise chances of success throughout...

I was all set to do this just by following advice on the forum, but lost my bottle a bit now and asking for help!

Cheers for any advice!

Redx

have a read of the NEWBIES - READ THIS FIRST sticky thread at the top of the forum , 4th one down

send in a soft appeal asap to the PPC , then if they reject it use the popla code, with more help from here

when the proper pcn person is back in work, try to get it cancelled by them, that way you cover ALL bases

RicardoJ

Thanks for the rapid response Redx! I've read and read over the last few weeks because this makes me ANGRY! Unfortunately, I end up going round in circles and have become unsure because of the employee part of the situation. Such a shame the law changed - I've successfully ignored a couple of these in the past...

It's the website vs snail mail question that's bugging me most - how can I be certain they won't just 'lose' an electronic appeal. Do I get an acknowledgement or something?

HO87

Hi Ricardo

You say that the "...NtK arrived early December (more than 28 days)"

Was a ticket attached to the vehicle in question on the day? If not, then the relevant period for service of the NtK is just 14 days (Day 1 being the day after the alleged event).

A soft i.e. simple appeal - as Redx suggests - should see a POPLA code and, guided from here you should be able to obtain another win at POPLA and see the charge overturned.

RicardoJ

HO87 wrote: »

Hi Ricardo

You say that the "...NtK arrived early December (more than 28 days)"

Was a ticket attached to the vehicle in question on the day? If not, then the relevant period for service of the NtK is just 14 days (Day 1 being the day after the alleged event).

A soft i.e. simple appeal - as Redx suggests - should see a POPLA code and, guided from here you should be able to obtain another win at POPLA and see the charge overturned.

HO87, the ticket was attached to the windscreen (I've kept it) so I think the 28 days bit applies here.

Redx

everybody who comes here gets ANGRY about this scam

the point here is

"dont get mad , get even" and "fight fire with fire" , and "play them at their own game"

learn the rules of the game , thus :- https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4835943

if the NTK came in december then clearly you should put an online soft appeal in (if that is possible) in the same manner as everybody else does , do not name the driver, just refute the ticket and demand its cancelled or get a popla code , not rocket science

most people who lose at POPLA do so due to badly worded appeals, but on here they always win if the appeals are worded correctly, you can see that in the sticky thread at the top of the forum

so get the soft appeal in asap

HO87

RicardoJ wrote: »

HO87, the ticket was attached to the windscreen (I've kept it) so I think the 28 days bit applies here.

On the basis that a NtD was issued then the PPC has a maximum of 56 days within in which to issue a NtK. In this case they were within the time limit. That matters not, in the overall scheme of things but it would have been nice to have had something of a slam-dunk POFA fail.

That aside you should appeal along the following lines:

CPP
CPP Towers
Wherever

Dear Sirs

Re: Notice to Keeper, dated <date>

I am in receipt of the above in relation to a Parking Charge Notice issued on <date>. For the avoidance of doubt I am the registered keeper of the vehicle concerned.

I wish to appeal against the issue of the Parking Charge Notice on the following bases:

a) The debt is denied
b) The charge does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss and is therefore unenforceable at law
c) The car park signage does not comply to the requirements of the British Parking Association Approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice
d) You do not have any authority or rights or insufficient authority or rights to offer contracts to park and/or enforce charges.

Please therefore cancel the above charge forthwith or supply me with a POPLA code so that I might appeal to them.

Yours faithfully

Send that to them by email (if they offer that) and by snail mail (ordinary first class mail will do but ensure you send it from a post office and ask for a certificate of posting - its free). Make sure you keep copies of the letter you send of course together with everything you've had so far.

Once a POPLA code is obtained then we can provide you with a more detailed appeal that will cover all of the important points.

RicardoJ

This is very useful thanks.

I think I'll do as suggested above and send both electronic AND paper (with CoP) - belt and braces! - using the template provided.

I'll also try the person who deals with these at work tomorrow, although I don't want to give her info that I was the driver that she might pass on. It's a bit awkward withholding info when dealing with your employer!

If no joy (or an expected rejection) then I'll return with my POPLA attempt...

I really appreciate your time in this. Have a Happy New Year!!

HO87

Keep in mind that what you are trying to obtain from CPP is a rejection. That might sound rather odd but PPC's rarely if ever accept appeals whereas we can virtually guarantee a success at POPLA if you follow our guidance.

As far as work is concerned I would venture to suggest that at present it is none of their business (and I do understand that this might have some implications). You are dealing with the matter. If you appeal(s) are ultimately successful then that is the end of the matter as far as your employers are concerned.

It would only become an issue - potentially - were you to ignore things and not pay either. That isn't what you are doing, of course.

RicardoJ

Sorry, one more thing. While drafting the initial appeal, do I mention that the RK and/or driver has a valid permit (therefore there is another reason why there is no 'loss' since there was no need to pay).

If so, how to skirt around the issue of it not being 'on display'.

Cheers

Redx

just mention that the VEHICLE has a valid permit (dont get fixated on keeper or driver, its the vehicle that has the permit issued) so no loss occurred to the landowner

you could attach a scan of the permit if you so wish, but the point here is as mentioned earlier, you are unlikely to get your appeal granted so the actual aim is to get a popla code IF they fail to cancel the ticket (these PPC`s rarely cancel the tickets as they can smell the money)