Which Dry Dog Food to Prevent Kidney Stones? (as cheap as possible, erk!)

Paradigm

teddysmum wrote: »

But dogs have been domesticated for so many centuries that they are greatly altered from the wild stock (ie wolves). This can't be due to relatively recent processed food; not common, even in the sixties.

They've changed in appearance due to our selective breeding but on the inside they're pretty much as they've always been with little, if any, difference to Wolves.

The fact that they can survive on some of the stuff we give them just shows how adaptable they are, not that their dietry requirements have changed... they are still primarily carnivores.

gettingready

This dog needs a special food to prevent KIDNEY STONES, not for any other reason so please do not advise the owner with random food suggestions.
Have a look here

http://www.ehow.co.uk/info_8093585_dog-dogs-struvite-bladder-stones.html

That looks expensive but with a small dog you need to work out how much do you need to feed per day and how much is this going to cost you per month?

http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/dogs/dry_dog_food/hills_prescription/220793

vetuk offers qute a selection of this, will be cheaper than at the vets (compare bag sizes/cost)

http://www.vetuk.co.uk/hills-prescription-diets-hills-cd-prescription-diet-cd-c-1030_66_97

gettingready

Re raw/BARF feeding - if anyone decides to go for it, please get proper advice as too many dogs end up with their throats shredded/blocked by bones and their insides cut by sharp bones.

Yes, they can process the food once it gets inside them safely but it is the getting to the stomach issues are the ones that vets see only too often, dogs with internal bleeding due to sharp bones/broken bits of bones etc etc.

Lizbetty

Thanks so much for your replies

We're due to take her back on Monday for her stitches out and so the vet said he'll discuss it more then, he told my husband that they have food we can buy but it will eb cheaper online - which is unusual for a vet isn't it!?

I'm not sure which brand it was, I think I need to have a chat with the vet (my husband gets half a tale!) and see exactly what will have caused the problem. Thinking back, she has been doing loads of little wees for years, we thought it was just her marking her territory but I guess it was the stones It must have taken some time for them to get so bad (blood in her wee made us take her to the vet). I'd hate for it to happen again though, it must've been causing her a lot of discomfort for a long time.

I had googled and someone on a random dog forum had been using tinned Chappy, someone else said that cranberry supplements had altered the ph of her dog's urine to a level to avoid stones to the point where her vet had started recommending cranberry too!

I'll discuss this with the vet - I'd like to think we could try a new diet and then get her urine tested to see if it's at the right ph level.

Thanks for the advice re the cheaper food websites She isn't supposed to eat a huge amount as she gets fat so quickly, although we'd probably buy 12kg at a time.

After I speak to the vet, if we do manage to sort the problem out using something cheaper than the recommended foods, I will let you all know! I won't be experimenting though unless we can make sure we can get her urine tested to confirm it's the right stuff.

I am wondering whether dried food has caused these problems. She does drink a lot, but only has dried food. I'm even wondering about my other dog's diet now, we've gotten in quite a rut with large bags of dried Wainwrights. I'm not quite brave enough to try them on the raw diet diet but a rethink is overdue.

Thanks again for your advice, it really is helpful!

Best wishes
Lucy

Beachview_2

Yes, definitely stick to the prescription diet as it would be too risky to try anything else. I have a dog who had bladder stones and has been on a prescription diet for years since.

Its not worth saving a bit of money on a non prescription diet as your dog might get the stones again, as you know they're very sore. And you'd have a big vets bill for another operation

Paradigm

Lucyeff wrote: »

I had googled and someone on a random dog forum had been using tinned Chappy, someone else said that cranberry supplements had altered the ph of her dog's urine to a level to avoid stones to the point where her vet had started recommending cranberry.

I've used the xmas hangover to do a lot of reading on Struvites, sad I know but I wasn't up for much else to be fair

The PH of dog urine seems to be the key.

Ideally it should be 6.0 to 6.5 (mildly acidic) it's when it creeps up to 7 (neutral) & above (alkaline) that problems can develop.
Alkaline urine is a much better breeding ground for infection & it's this infection that, in most cases, causes the Struvite crystals to form stones.

Diet can, it seems, play a part in affecting the urine PH with the general view that foods high in grain derived carbohydrates can raise the PH to levels that could cause problems.

With the above in mind I looked at the Hills prescription diet linked too by gettingready & I was more than a little surprised...

Ingredients:
Water, Beef By-Products, Chicken, Rice, Whole Grain Corn,

are the first 5, & therefore highest content, ingredients.
If there is a link between grain & Struvite stone formation, & there does seem to be one, why would a food supposedly meant to deal with this condition contain any grain at all? (god only knows what "beef by-products" are)

It also contains nearly 20% fat & 44% carbs.

Secondly, why is it so bloody expensive? There's nothing special in the ingredients list to merit it's price, in fact it's worse than some "normal" foods.

Cranberry is thought to work but I can't find any scientific evidence to say it does or not.

One article on the subject of Struvites...

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2009/10/22/these-3-things-may-indicate-your-pet-has-a-bladder-problem.aspx

Yes it's Sunday & yes I'm bored

Bex296

Please discuss with your own vet, they may be able to suggest options other than prescription foods if they think this is appropriate. Definitely buy online- those suppliers buy in bulk and can sell at a much cheaper price than your vet (who probably doesn't have a whole lot of space for storing these things!).

This probably isn't relevant for your current problem as you've probably checked, but if your dog is insured, have a look at the small print of your insurance policy, as some companies will cover prescription foods. It's worth considering when you choose insurance for future pets, especially if the premium isn't very different. Ditto to lifelong cover for illnesses, some companies will cover for ongoing medication and that can be a massive moneysaver if your pet needs ongoing treatment. I have a couple of friends who have had bad luck with their pets and have saved a lot by paying a little extra for lifelong cover that pays for ongoing treatment and food!

Lizbetty

Paradigm wrote: »

I've used the xmas hangover to do a lot of reading on Struvites, sad I know but I wasn't up for much else to be fair

The PH of dog urine seems to be the key.

Ideally it should be 6.0 to 6.5 (mildly acidic) it's when it creeps up to 7 (neutral) & above (alkaline) that problems can develop.
Alkaline urine is a much better breeding ground for infection & it's this infection that, in most cases, causes the Struvite crystals to form stones.

Diet can, it seems, play a part in affecting the urine PH with the general view that foods high in grain derived carbohydrates can raise the PH to levels that could cause problems.

With the above in mind I looked at the Hills prescription diet linked too by gettingready & I was more than a little surprised...

are the first 5, & therefore highest content, ingredients.
If there is a link between grain & Struvite stone formation, & there does seem to be one, why would a food supposedly meant to deal with this condition contain any grain at all? (god only knows what "beef by-products" are)

It also contains nearly 20% fat & 44% carbs.

Secondly, why is it so bloody expensive? There's nothing special in the ingredients list to merit it's price, in fact it's worse than some "normal" foods.

Cranberry is thought to work but I can't find any scientific evidence to say it does or not.

One article on the subject of Struvites...

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2009/10/22/these-3-things-may-indicate-your-pet-has-a-bladder-problem.aspx

Yes it's Sunday & yes I'm bored

Wow! :j Thanks so much, how kind of you to get back with so much useful information :beer:

It is quite fascinating, I hate not knowing about things and just blindly doing what I'm told (especially when it's along the lines of 'buy this expensive stuff or else your dog will get poorly'), so this information really does come in handy. I feel well armed for tomorrow, I'll go and have a read the link about struvites and make some notes for tomorrow.

I do feel as if a lot (not all!) of professional pet advice relies on a certain amount of emotional blackmail rather than facts, just for financial gain. I have noticed that it does flummox some professionals if you're well read on things, too Hopefully the vet will notice that we're aware there could be alternative options to remortgaging for the prescription stuff and will work with us.

Thanks for the tip too on the insurers possibly covering us for food too, Bex296. We're with Direct Line and so I'm not sure it's so comprehensive, but I will absolutely check know I know they might! :T

Thank you again, I do love you lot!

Lucy x

fairymoneysaver

If it is struvite crystals then you will need the Hills prescription diet (or Royal Canin equivalent) which contains reduced levels of magnesium, phosphorus and protein, this will keep the pH of the urine at 6-6.5 and will stop the crystals/stones from forming again. If you want to read more viovet.co.uk have lots of info on the prescription diets.

Lizbetty

Sorry for the late reply - we had to wait for some urine test results, then wait for the vet to get back and it's taken a while.

The tests indicated that she is still producing a heap of small struvite crystals following the op, and so the vet has suggested we put her on Hills SD tinned food which I managed to get from Chemist Direct for £22 x12. Via quidco. Still eyewateringly expensive. The vet said that this would be a temporary measure until her next urine test, and it will dissolve the crystals (hopefully!).

The next step is a bit hazy - my husband asked him about cranberry supplements, etc, and the vet did seem quite open to suggestions but said he'd know more after the next urine test. I know that they won't keep her on Hills SD as it does say it's not recommended long term.

I've decided to put my youngest dog onto dried Chappie to cut down our total costs - we pay about £40 for a 15kg bag every month on Wainwrights, whereas Chappie only seems to be around £20 a bag and
has some really good reviews. My youngest dog is bigger, eats more and is quite a hardy thing, unlike my eldest who has recurrent ear infections, bunged anal glands and a weird paw chewing habit. Oh, and crystal wee! Poor thing.

It should help us cut costs down anyway. We so need to - it couldn't have come at a worse time! We've just moved and the house we're in appears to keep breaking. What with the cost of the move, fixing dangerous broken things and a poorly dog, I'm more than a bit worried about money at the moment!

Still waiting for Direct Line to settle the first bit of the claim too, and that's a huge sum we could do with clawing back as soon as we can.

Anyway, I'll put the violins away and keep you posted on what the vet says after the next wee test.

Thanks again for your help - it's great that the vet is obviously open to suggestions and so hopefully I might find out something which could be useful to others after all this.

Lucy x