You've Never Had It So Good....

Loughton_Monkey

gazter wrote: »

........As with everything cracks appear, but I'm find it hard to believe that there are many rough sleepers (that is the general understanding of homeless by the man on the street) that aren't covered by the above.

I find the word "vulnerable" cropping up with alarming frequency these days. It is difficult to put a real meaning on it since in theory, we are virtually all 'vulnerable' to a degree. Defining the actual degree below which to 'house' and above which 'not to house' must be very subjective.

Many years ago, for example, I worked in Peckham and was very vulnerable to being shouted at, abused, and asked for money by various wino's sitting on park benches..... but I did not feel that qualified me for free or subsidised housing.

Southend1

Generali wrote: »

The average person makes less than three grand a year. Do you honestly think they have large amounts to give to charity?

The average is three grand a year for housing, schooling, medicine, food, clothing, everything.

I'm not sure how to react to the comments on this thread. Do people think that there is some sort of equivalence between being 'poor' in the UK and being poor in Guatemala? Are people just arguing for the hell of it? My suspicion is that many posters simply don't understand that being sure of having food on the table 99 days of 100 and having ready access to heat, light, shelter, medicine and fresh water puts them comfortably in the top 20% of the world's population.

Three grand a year makes you middle class. Sixty quid a week. The minimum wage is a fiver a day if you work in agriculture, less if you work in a factory. That's what the working poor get. How do you think the sick/unemployed live?

http://www.terraexperience.com/guatemala_minimum_wage.htm

Statistics about money don't paint the whole picture. And that is the point I am trying to make. E.g. it costs a church or school or a generous householder nothing in monetary terms to allow people to bed down in its building for the night. Whereas my local church has invested in CCTV, locks and shutters to actively prevent rough sleepers from sleeping on the premises.

tomterm8

gazter wrote: »

As with everything cracks appear, but I'm find it hard to believe that there are many rough sleepers (that is the general understanding of homeless by the man on the street) that aren't covered by the above.

I agree with you to an extent, but you're forgetting that the "vulnerable" tag is a qualifier here. Councils routinely use it to deny help.

I'd say anyone who is sleeping on the streets is vulnerable, but there are many more of them now IMHO than there were five years ago.

There is a gap between statistics for homelessness and rough sleepers, because there are a lot of people who are homeless who are very far from being rough sleepers. Rough Sleepers are very difficult to count because if they are sensible they stay as far away from anyone who looks official as possible.

IveSeenTheLight

Southend1 wrote: »

Don't forget though that many of us don't have the luxury of visiting other countries to see how well off we are. The three homeless guys who live in a doorway outside my office for example. Or the thousands of British families wondering whether to put the heating on for an hour or two or put some dinner on the table tonight. It's easy to think that hardship only exists in far away places, but you don't have to look very far to find it close to home either.

Having travelled and worked in various parts of the world, I did find it extremely humbling and verification of how lucky we are in the Western World.

I have been extremely fortunate to be born where I was and be afforded the opportunities I have.

In terms of the bit I bolded, my local area has a 0.7% unemployment rate. There are literally insufficient people for the work that is available.
Many nowadays feel they should not need to move to find employment, but there are opportunities in the UK should you desire or aspire to get them.

Of course as mentioned, many homeless people have issues above and beyond what many might be able to comprehend, but there is a support network to help them, should they be willing to ask for that support.

I saw a programme the other evening about a call centre in Wales. It is amazing how crass people can be and take employment without realising how lucky they are to hae an opportunity.

I bet there are many Guatemalans / Cambodians, Malay, Indian, Thai, East European etc that would appreciate and grab the opportunity that us British are fortunate to have.

tomterm8

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

In terms of the bit I bolded, my local area has a 0.7% unemployment rate.

Mildly wondering where that is. I thought my area with unemployment of 1.1% was one of the lowest in the country.

Southend1

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Having travelled and worked in various parts of the world, I did find it extremely humbling and verification of how lucky we are in the Western World.

I have been extremely fortunate to be born where I was and be afforded the opportunities I have.

In terms of the bit I bolded, my local area has a 0.7% unemployment rate. There are literally insufficient people for the work that is available.
Many nowadays feel they should not need to move to find employment, but there are opportunities in the UK should you desire or aspire to get them.

Of course as mentioned, many homeless people have issues above and beyond what many might be able to comprehend, but there is a support network to help them, should they be willing to ask for that support.

I saw a programme the other evening about a call centre in Wales. It is amazing how crass people can be and take employment without realising how lucky they are to hae an opportunity.

I bet there are many Guatemalans / Cambodians, Malay, Indian, Thai, East European etc that would appreciate and grab the opportunity that us British are fortunate to have.

On the whole, I don't disagree. Although wherever you live seems to have unusually low unemployment levels (great, but shame this isn't replicated across Britain!).

My point was, and remains, that there is poverty and hardship at home too, despite us being better off on average than some nations. I'm sat in my office now and as I look out the window into the pouring rain and gale force winds, the three homeless guys are sitting in their doorway with nothing but two old duvets and a can of special brew to keep them warm. Yes they may have addiction problems and maybe mental health issues too but they are still human beings and just because Britain offers more on average than Guatemala to its citizens, does not mean we should ignore their plight or blame them for the situation they find themselves in. There is a homeless shelter across town, run by a charity, however I have seen the sign outside which warns that anyone drunk or in the possession of alcohol will not be admitted, which basically rules out most of the homeless in the area. I will certainly be sparing a thought for them, and for all those in hardship, here or abroad, as I tuck into my Christmas dinner.

IveSeenTheLight

Southend1 wrote: »

On the whole, I don't disagree. Although wherever you live seems to have unusually low unemployment levels (great, but shame this isn't replicated across Britain!).

My point was, and remains, that there is poverty and hardship at home too, despite us being better off on average than some nations. I'm sat in my office now and as I look out the window into the pouring rain and gale force winds, the three homeless guys are sitting in their doorway with nothing but two old duvets and a can of special brew to keep them warm. Yes they may have addiction problems and maybe mental health issues too but they are still human beings and just because Britain offers more on average than Guatemala to its citizens, does not mean we should ignore their plight or blame them for the situation they find themselves in. There is a homeless shelter across town, run by a charity, however I have seen the sign outside which warns that anyone drunk or in the possession of alcohol will not be admitted, which basically rules out most of the homeless in the area. I will certainly be sparing a thought for them, and for all those in hardship, here or abroad, as I tuck into my Christmas dinner.

Whilst I am sure there are people who are genuinely homeless, and there are options for those to have shelter there are examples of people who choose to earn whilst claiming to be homeless

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1303310/Beggars-pretending-homeless-raking-20-000-year.html


http://metro.co.uk/2009/08/10/beggars-earning-73000-a-year-328306/

Going back to your example above. It appears the people you refer to are choosing alcohol over shelter.
I can certainly understand why a shelter would want to ensure the safety of it's workers and other homeless people by having a no drink / drugs policy.

IveSeenTheLight

tomterm8 wrote: »

Mildly wondering where that is. I thought my area with unemployment of 1.1% was one of the lowest in the country.

http://www.aberdeenshire.gov.uk/statistics/economic/labour.asp

In Q3 it was 0.9%, but I believe it has dropped to 0.7% in Q4

IveSeenTheLight

Southend1 wrote: »

On the whole, I don't disagree. Although wherever you live seems to have unusually low unemployment levels (great, but shame this isn't replicated across Britain!).

I understand that different area fare better or worse than others.
Which is why if you are looking for work, you may wish to seek employment elsewhere.

In my area, we have more jobs than applicants, meaning we are actively seeking transferable skills from around the country, with ex-forces people being targeted due to their transferable skills, work ethic and ability to relocate, as well as a government incentive to hire ex-military personnel

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2270069/Best-worst-cities-job-Aberdeen-Guildford-best-jobseekers-Hull-worst.html

Southend1

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

I understand that different area fare better or worse than others.
Which is why if you are looking for work, you may wish to seek employment elsewhere.

In my area, we have more jobs than applicants, meaning we are actively seeking transferable skills from around the country, with ex-forces people being targeted due to their transferable skills, work ethic and ability to relocate, as well as a government incentive to hire ex-military personnel

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2270069/Best-worst-cities-job-Aberdeen-Guildford-best-jobseekers-Hull-worst.html

If all of the 49 surplus applicants per job in Hull moved to Aberdeen to seek work and so on, surely this would just spread around the unemployment? There are only 3 places in the UK with a shortage of workers, according to the graphic.