You've Never Had It So Good....

Southend1

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

... which by the way (back to the issue) is always a question mark (to me) about the homeless. I would estimate that as a general rule, if they are literally sleeping in a doorway or park bench in the winter, I tend to believe that they have rejected 99 offers/advice of help by that time. I severely question what chance the 100th offer has of working?

Good point. The 100th offer may not work, nor the 1000th. But I believe it's right to keep offering help and advice. This is probably where social workers can help, by getting to know people well, trying to understand their issues and tailor support packages to the individual.

Southend1

Generali wrote: »

AIUI, virtually all rough sleepers 'choose' to do so in the UK. They make that 'choice' because of problems with mental illness or addiction or, most often, both.

In Guatemala, to return to the original point of the thread, many will be destitute simply because they have no money nor any access to money.

Mental illness and addiction can be the result of or exacerbated by financial or other hardship. So I don't think it's as clear cut as you say.

The original post did point out that many people in Guatemala have less money than many people in the UK. However, my original point still stands: I.e. Quality of life is not just about how much money the average person has, therefore we should look out for the vulnerable wherever they may be and not kid ourselves that everyone in our own country has it easy.

IveSeenTheLight

Southend1 wrote: »

H
I'm not sure which light it is you've seen, but I don't believe it's the light of Christ.

I freely admit, I am not religious.
You do not need to be religious to be compassionate.

Southend1 wrote: »

H
This Christmas, I would ask you to take just five minutes to reflect on how easy it could be for anyone to fall through the gaps in our society.

I know of people who have fallen through the gaps, so no need for further reflection.

Southend1 wrote: »

How far away from the streets are you and your loved ones? A relationship break up, a redundancy, an illness.... Can happen to anyone.

I know of many people who have had relationship breakups and very recently a friend became a young widow after her husband passed away after many years of illness.

I have taken in friends who were going through a divorce until they have got their foundations sorted.

For most people there is a network of friends and family to gain support from, For the rest, there are establishments set up to support.

If you are unfortunate not to have friends / family to lean on in bad times, then you have the option of community support, albeit you have to abide by some simple basic rules.

If your not willing to abide by those rules, then why should you expect to be helped?

Southend1 wrote: »

Next time you pass a rough sleeper, consider who they may have been before they ended up on the street, and what circumstances may have contributed to the situation. Then think about whether they really chose to sleep in the cold and the rain or whether that might just be the only option left.

That's the thing, it's not the only option left.
There are options for support, it's simply a case of whether you are willing to take up that support or not.

IveSeenTheLight

Southend1 wrote: »

I suspect few of them preach intolerance or hatred for fellow human beings.

Where have I shown an intolerance or hatred for fellow human beings?

This discussion is about how fortunate we are to have been born / live in the society we do and has developed into a discussion of how support for those in need in the UK can be provided, but some choose not to accept that support.

The simple point is that they are still very fortunate in this world to have the option of support whether they accept that support or not.

IveSeenTheLight

Southend1 wrote: »

Good point. The 100th offer may not work, nor the 1000th. But I believe it's right to keep offering help and advice. This is probably where social workers can help, by getting to know people well, trying to understand their issues and tailor support packages to the individual.

One could argue that repeatedly offering support with no acceptance is a waste of time and does not progress a situation.

Sometimes, when people are blind to the support and options being provides, being left to themselves may make some realise that they have to do it for themselves.

IveSeenTheLight

Southend1 wrote: »

Mental illness and addiction can be the result of or exacerbated by financial or other hardship. So I don't think it's as clear cut as you say.

The point many people are trying to make to you is that on the decline slope, there will likely have been many opportunities of support, long before addiction / mental illness forces people onto the streets.

It's a series of choices they have made that has resulted in them being where they are.

Many of the issues you have brought up could have been avoided if those people had put in place a provision against such.

The world has developed such that there is more understanding and support than there ever has been.

Think back a hundred years ago, were there the same options afforded to the same people today.
Would the homeless have the option of shelter?
Would there be the same support for depression / mental illness, stress, financial aid etc?

We in the UK are extremely fortunate to live in the country and the times that we do, but at some point you must understand that others support / help will only go so far if you are unwilling to help yourself.

tomterm8

Generali wrote: »

I bet that they all earn more than a fiver a day!

The average cost of a drug addiction has to be over £100 a day.

It's pretty clear that if you are willing to stoop to panhandling, or certain other illicit activities, you can make far more than the minimum wage. In fact, you can make a middle class wage outside the system (and no tax).

But the people who make these type of wages generally spend them on the drugs, and get very little good from them.

People in this country have a different set of problems to the people in Guatemala, but they are still problems.

kabayiri

I do struggle with the Guatemalan / UK comparison. There are so many differences.

A different example would be India. The significant numbers of the poor element of the population still live on a dollar or two a day.

How does India reconcile this with a Space or Nuclear weapon program? If you are a middle class IT professional in India you live pretty well.

Is there an implicit acceptance that there will always be a large divide between rich and poor, that this is somehow a natural order of things?

tomterm8

kabayiri wrote: »

Is there an implicit acceptance that there will always be a large divide between rich and poor, that this is somehow a natural order of things?

Maybe it's just me, but I think that fundamentally it is impossible for 7 billion people to live off earth resources with the life style of even a working class british person.

So, we really do need to expand into space.

People make a lot of fuss about space programs, but it's a false choice. Yes, space programs won't give immediate results - but otherwise we will be stuck with the resources of earth. Which aren't enough to relieve poverty.

Generali

kabayiri wrote: »

I do struggle with the Guatemalan / UK comparison. There are so many differences.

A different example would be India. The significant numbers of the poor element of the population still live on a dollar or two a day.

How does India reconcile this with a Space or Nuclear weapon program? If you are a middle class IT professional in India you live pretty well.

Is there an implicit acceptance that there will always be a large divide between rich and poor, that this is somehow a natural order of things?

Someone said that the poor will always be with us. In the UK, absolute poverty is mostly 'chosen'.

In India they have lots and lots of Socialism. All sorts of things to keep the poor people poor even if that isn't the aim.