Filling out claim amount on deposit court claim

Zabki

Hi,

I tried to google and search this forum but can't get the info I need. But usually there is people here who knows.

Helping a friend sue to get her deposit back, we will defintely win but probably not get them money back anyways. But this landlord has to get a CCJ.

This is the short story, my friend rented a bed (a bed not a room) in an illegal, overcrowded and unlicensed HMO/FMO flat. The girl renting it out claimed to be the landlord and took out a deposit of £580, 8 weeks later they are evicted be the estate agent as it was an illegal sublet. The girl refuses to return the deposit.

We started digging into this and found out she has rented out several illegal sublets, without HMO/FMO licence, overcrowded and charged £500-600 per bed with up to 9 people in the flats. Deposits were never protected and often failed to be returned, she has done this to at least 40 youngster.

I have contacted as many as I can and I am trying to get them to report her to the council for unlicensed HMO/FMO, the courts for the unprotected deposits etc. I know at least one person has been threatened with violence but she is to scared to report. But most of them are so stressed they do the ostrich hiding in the sand thing.

My friend and I want to do what we can to stop her, one thing was reporting her to HMRC for tax evasion (seriously doubt she has taxed properly), now we want to go to court for her deposit despite maybe not getting it back just so she can get a CCJ and make it more difficult for her to pass credit checks to rent flats etc.

So my question is; we don't want to pay too much in court fees but we still want it to hurt so how do we write the amount we want to claim?

Can we write £580 + penalties for unprotected deposit and interest and just pay £70 initially, then no fee for allocation and £80 for the hearing?
Or if we want penalties and interest do we have to write the roughly £2365ish it would come to and then pay the higher fees which that entails?

Ideally we would like to claim the full amount we can to scare her off ripping people off in future (and make it more difficult for her to rent flats), but as she might do a runner we could do with just claiming for £580 as our main aim is for her to get the CCJ against her to protect others and not for the money.

Other tips on how to stop her in legal ways are most welcome too.

Will if I have to notify the owners of her illegal sublets and let them know they can sue her for the profit she has made. But that means a lot of innocent people will be evicted (but then again they will sooner or later end up in trouble in these flats).

Guest101

Unless you go to county court, she wont get a county court judgment. even then if you win, she would have to get the chance to pay, before the ccj was reportable.

also your friend may have been safe from eviction as the letting agent may have acted illegally.just fyi

dancingfairy

I think there are 2 seperate things:
1) suing for the return of the deposit - normal court fees.
2) suing for non-protection of the deposit. The judge can award you up to 3 x the deposit. Normally this is allocated to a different part of the court system so can cost up to 1000. I have heard some courts though are putting it into the normal small claims track so you would only have normal court fees.
You can sue for either 1 or 2 or both as far as I know.
In terms of other people to report to:
1) the council HMO department.
2) tenancy relations officer at the council if they have one.
3) council tax at the local council -landlords of HMO's are responsible for paying council tax.
4) mortgage lender - can maybe download the title deeds for the property for around 3 or 4 pounds to see who the mortgage lender is.
5) HSE? Not 100% sure who, but you can report for lack of gas safety certificate.
6) I think Shelter has a report a rogue landlord section as well.

Also have a look at the Shelter website, it is full of useul information to do with tenancies and landlords rights.
In terms of suing the landlord and getting your money back it is likely you will have to either go for bailiffs or you could consider putting a charging order on the house. Other options you could consider are getting an order over the bank account of trying to push for bankruptcy. To help you decide what option(s) you may want to pursue and the various costs involved the courts service do a booklet called something like enforcing a court judgement.
Personally if I won I'd probably try and get the debtor in for an order to attend court for questioning to determine what assets they have and then go for either a transfer to the high court for execution by a high court bailiff (they tend to be more successful than County court bailiffs from what I can gather), or maybe a bank arrestment.
df
Edit: Leaflet on enforcement methods are here: http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/HMCTS/GetLeaflet.do?court_leaflets_id=219
Shelter website here: http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/private_renting/private_renting_agreements/houses_in_multiple_occupation/rights_and_responsibilities_in_a_shared_home They have lots of useful factsheets and info.

Guest101

dancingfairy wrote: »

I think there are 2 seperate things:
1) suing for the return of the deposit - normal court fees.
2) suing for non-protection of the deposit. The judge can award you up to 3 x the deposit. Normally this is allocated to a different part of the court system so can cost up to 1000. I have heard some courts though are putting it into the normal small claims track so you would only have normal court fees.
You can sue for either 1 or 2 or both as far as I know.
In terms of other people to report to:
1) the council HMO department.
2) tenancy relations officer at the council if they have one.
3) council tax at the local council -landlords of HMO's are responsible for paying council tax.
4) mortgage lender - can maybe download the title deeds for the property for around 3 or 4 pounds to see who the mortgage lender is.
5) HSE? Not 100% sure who, but you can report for lack of gas safety certificate.
6) I think Shelter has a report a rogue landlord section as well.

Also have a look at the Shelter website, it is full of useul information to do with tenancies and landlords rights.
In terms of suing the landlord and getting your money back it is likely you will have to either go for bailiffs or you could consider putting a charging order on the house. Other options you could consider are getting an order over the bank account of trying to push for bankruptcy. To help you decide what option(s) you may want to pursue and the various costs involved the courts service do a booklet called something like enforcing a court judgement.
Personally if I won I'd probably try and get the debtor in for an order to attend court for questioning to determine what assets they have and then go for either a transfer to the high court for execution by a high court bailiff (they tend to be more successful than County court bailiffs from what I can gather), or maybe a bank arrestment.
df
Edit: Leaflet on enforcement methods are here: http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/HMCTS/GetLeaflet.do?court_leaflets_id=219

The LL was a subletting tenant.

dancingfairy

Just re-read your thread. If the person who took your money is not the actual landlord then obviously your position is different. You will still have to go to court though. Do you have proof a deposit was paid and the amount etc?
As the above poster has said the letting agents may have acted illegally as well.
You ideally need advice from a specialist, have you got a local legal centre nearby or maybe your local CAB can point you in the right direction?
You can also investigate taking action against the letting agents for an illegal eviction but you would need to first determine the status of the occupation (whether she was a lodger, tenant or something else- Shelter should be able to help with this).
df

dancingfairy

Guest101 wrote: »

The LL was a subletting tenant.

Just realised this. Thought i'd leave it in case it proves useful to someonelse but I can delete it if necessary.
OP -Does the actual landlord know what is going on?
df
Edit: it's too early for skim reading

Zabki

Thanks for the above information.

To be a bit clear it didn't happen to me but I can't stand by and watch this continue. She has definitely tricked 40+ youngster in the past and she currently has about 6 flats filled with a minimum of 6 in each. The ones of have moved out, been evicted no longer have the option of going to the council but I am trying to get the current tenants to do so.

All the flats are illegal sublets without the owners knowing, she tells the tenants to lie to anyone asking how many there are in the flats. They are overcrowded, no HMO/FMO licence, No boiler certificates, suspect there is no fire extinguisher/blankets etc. The deposits are unprotected.

We are not doing it for the money, we just want her to get a CCJ against her name. We want to take it as far as we possibly can but preferably not pay too much. Any tip here is very helpful.

I am aware that the real owners/letting agents might have acted wrong but our issue is not with them we want to prevent this girl from being able to rent places as easy in the future as she will continue as this wouldn't have happened in the first place if she had not done it.

I know my best bet to get a mark against her name is probably the HMRC which I have already reported her to. And if the council lacks teeth for the few who dares to report her then I will get the info from the landregistry to inform the owners. However I want to wait for the council to act first as I don't want a knee jerk reaction from the owners.

G_M

As Dancing Fairy says, to claim the 3 times penalty should involve a County Court hearing as it is a penalty, not a damages claim. Hence the £1000 court fees (though you claim these back if you win.)

But yes, anecdotally some courts allow these claims to go via the (cheaper) Small Claims Track. Speak to the court officials and ask!

Don't forget tax. She is almost certainly not declaring her rental income for income tax!

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/reportingfraud/

Guest101

Right well when she illegally evicted someone, take a copy if the statute to the police and have them arrest her. Simple

thesaint

Does your friend have a receipt that states she paid a deposit?

dancingfairy

As well as any civil action you may take you should also report this to the police.
df