Euro Car Parks...Signage discrepancies?

4consumerrights

cash_mad wrote: »

4consumerrights, thanks for your post -
why is the news bad?
(I couldn't get the first two links to open, but the last one did, although reading about their company has left me no wiser).
Would it diminish my chance to fight this charge any more do you think?
I could write to the 2 shareholders, but I doubt that I'd get any joy...
TK Maxx hasn't got back to me yet...(suprise)
I am going to work on soft appeal, using cameras as main argument.
Would I be wise to leave the other stuff til POPLA? or do I have to put it all out from the off?
I must admit, I am uncomfortable with lifting templates from here - as the legal language is alien to me, but if I put my appeals up for checking with you more knowledgeable ones, I will give it a go...

I thought the answer may have been obvious but as you're a NEWBIE maybe not so.

If Euro Car Parks actually own the car park in question then that rather negates one of the appeal points used - no contract with landowner! We will still put in though as they will have to prove it.

It is not all bad news though as the other appeal points as per Umkomaas points out are still valid - and the point of the charge not being a genuine pre-estimate of loss is a winner all the time.



With regards to contacting the directors - don't waste your time - they are in the business of taking the money from you.

Concentrate your efforts on complaining to the retailer (as they may not own all car parks) and putting in a good POPLA appeal (after a soft appeal to Euro).


You can however complain to companies house with regards to your discovery that the company is not a public limited company but owned privately!:)

Coupon-mad

Never known ECP to own any car parks even if they do have mortgages...could be on office buildings.

4consumerrights

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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

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Even more reason to still include the no contract with landowner appeal point then!

They certainly have borrowed a lot of money for their offices.

cash_mad

Hi again all -
here is my 'soft' appeal to the ECP...just thought I'd stick it on here to see what you think...please let me know if I've dropped any clangers...


To euro car parks,
This is an appeal against the parking charge notice issued to the registered keeper of ### ###.

The challenge to this charge is that the entry sign is not at the entrance to the car park at all - and, as such is not compliant with the law...see British Parking Association code of practise. Appendix B.
There is no signage in the vicinity of the stores.
Therefore there was no contract between the driver and yourselves.
There are photos available to assist you in observing this. (send pics?)

The driver was a customer of TK Maxx, and receipt copy is available to prove this. (send copy of receipt?)
The store has been made aware of the situation.
As the free car park serves this store, and several others - and was being used for it's true purpose, the sum you are demanding in relation to an overstay bears absolutely no relation to any genuine pre-estimate of loss incurred by either you or the landowner.

If you reject this challenge and insist on taking the matter further, you may send me a code for POPLA.

I must inform you that I may claim my expenses from you, and my time at the court rate of £18 per hour.
The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive, but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses, legal fees, etc.
By continuing to pursue me you agree to pay these costs.

Regards, ## ##########

I haven't included everything, but I will, if they are going to 'disallow' anything that I left out if this goes to POPLA.
Will do this as online appeal & I will make sure I include,
my full name/full postal address/parking charge notice number/vehicle reistration mark - which is what they insist on.

Thanks in advance...

Redx

I would change this part

you may send me a code for POPLA.

To something like

you must send me a code for POPLA.

or I insist that you send me a code for POPLA.

no ifs , no buts , no "may" , no wiggle room , its put up or shut up !

4consumerrights

cash_mad wrote: »

Hi again all -
here is my 'soft' appeal to the ECP...just thought I'd stick it on here to see what you think...please let me know if I've dropped any clangers...

Amended slightly

To euro car parks,
PCN NO:
Car Reg No:


[STRIKE]This is an appeal against the parking charge notice issued to the registered keeper of ### ###.

The challenge to this charge is that the entry sign is not at the entrance to the car park at all - and, as such is not compliant with the law...see British Parking Association code of practise. Appendix B.
There is no signage in the vicinity of the stores.
Therefore there was no contract between the driver and yourselves.
There are photos available to assist you in observing this. (send pics?)
[/STRIKE]

I am the registered keeper of the above vehicle and appeal the parking charge notice dated ............ in on the following grounds.

The driver disputes that a contract was formed with Euro Car Parks as the driver did not see any signage on the date in question. This has now been confirmed by a return visit where photographic evidence has been taken and will be included at POPLA if necessary.

This is also a direct breach of the Bitish Parking Association's Code of Practice which stipulates criteria for signage requirements, the rules by which you are obliged to adhere to. There was no clear sign at the car park entrance , which would alert the driver when entering the car park, nor were there any visible signs in the vicinity of where the driver parked that day. This could also be construed as entrapment.
[STRIKE]The driver was a customer of TK Maxx, and receipt copy is available to prove this. (send copy of receipt?)
The store has been made aware of the situation.
As the free car park serves this store, and several others - and was being used for it's true purpose, the sum you are demanding in relation to an overstay bears absolutely no relation to any genuine pre-estimate of loss incurred by either you or the landowner.
[/STRIKE]

The driver was a genuine customer of TK Maxx on the retail site and therefore permitted by the landowner to use the car parking facilities. (A copy of the receipt is enclosed).

There was no charge for car parking and therefore no loss was incurred to the landowner nor yourseleves as their agent. The £90 parking charge is therefore disproportionate and does not reflect a genuine pre-estimate of loss for the alleged breach should a contract exist.

In view of this, I therefore invite you either to cancel the charge or issue a POPLA code for the next stage of the appeals process.

However, should you reject my challenge and continue to pursue this matter further, then further points will be included in the POPLA appeal for their consideration. I must also inform that that in this instance, I may claim my expenses from you and my time at court rate of £18 per hour in challenging this parking charge. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive, but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses, legal fees, etc. By continuing to pursue me you agree to pay these costs should I prevail.

Yours faithfully

squiggle name
Registered Keeper.

Stroma

Yes send the above

cash_mad

Thanks very much 4consumerrights - I will send this.
I have worked out that there will be strong possibility that I will be abroad when POPLA make their decision, (around middle Feb).
If it goes against me & ecp starts to escalate (due to feeling ignored),
would my flight bookings/tickets and not having access to my post during this time, be a good reason for not replying to them?
Should I tell them at this stage when I shall be unavailable? or can it wait until my POPLA appeal? (I did search, but can't find examples of this)...
Thanks - again.

Umkomaas

When ECP reject your soft appeal they should send you a POPLA code. Make sure you get that, then with our help in developing your draft, you can get your appeal off to POPLA before going, safe in the knowledge that there will be no further contact from ECP as your POPLA appeal will be successful.

You will need to ensure you get that POPLA code, because if that arrives while you're away, the 28-day clock is ticking and won't stop. If it expires while you're away, there's no precedent for it to be re-activated, so keep an eye on things during January.

Don't go telling ECP anything as they may well time things to ensure you get your POPLA code while you are away - in just the scenario I've detailed above.

cash_mad

Right...Thanks for that - if sent today, they have written that they will acknowledge within 14 days...Then, even taking another 35 days to reject - also in writing - I can get the POPLA appeal in before I'm away...
ooooerrrr!