Ideas for Summer fair...

seth

Got roped into running a stall at the kids school over summer. Was thinking of running a stall and selling CDs with GPL software on it.

I thought most parents / kids would have Windows and so thought of some programs that run under Windows.


So far the candidate list looks like this:

Open Office (Free MS Office compatible suite)

• http://www.openoffice.org

T r u e C r y p t (to secure information on USB devices and laptops)
Free open-source disk encryption for Windows XP/2000/2003

• http://truecrypt.sourceforge.net/ http://truecrypt.sourceforge.net/download.php?file=truecrypt-3.1a.zip

Firefox (secure browser adware resistant etc..)

• http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/

Video Lan Client (Secure Media player)
Banish Codec and driver issues

• http://www.videolan.org/

NetHack Falcon's Eye (Game)

• http://users.tkk.fi/~jtpelto2/nhscreen_big05.jpg

EgoBoo (Game)

• http://egoboo.sourceforge.net/cap10.jpg
• http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/egoboo/ego222.zip?download

Tux Typing (Typing for Kids)
http://www.geekcomix.com/dm/tuxtype/

As well as the some more heavy duty disks(!) for the brave...

SME Server (a free file server, mail server, web server and firewall)
Web based management, web mail, etc. Works with Mac, Windows etc.

• http://contribs.org/modules/news/

IPCop (a free firewall)
Web based management, web based updates, works with Macs, Windows etc. build in wireless support etc.

• http://www.ipcop.org/

I've emailed the authors for permission where products are not GPL (and those that are out of politeness!): You CAN SELL GPL SOFTWARE: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html

The school is a girls school ages 5 years to 18 so my wife suggested some kids mice and mouse mats, perhaps some headphones with microphones for VOIP (and a fact sheet on cheap/free providers 1899, sipgate.co.uk, 18866) etc..

We plan to donate all the items to the school who will keep the money raised in the sale.

Can anyone think of other suitable software or items to donate / sell / copy onto CD (I'd like to stick to Open source licences please) I was after software that was simple and easy to install (I did think of TightVNC for remote access but this might be too complex?!)


Seth.

Fran

Why would you copy free software that anyone can download from a website on to CD? Have you got permission to do that... sounds odd to me?

seth

Fran wrote:

Why would you copy free software that anyone can download from a website on to CD? Have you got permission to do that... sounds odd to me?

There are lots of reasons, the download might be large, the person may be used to installing from CD, people might prefer boxed product (Photo CD in DVD keepsake case) they may not know or have time to track down the lastest versions on sourceforge, may be scared of downloading bad software or virus infections.

YES I HAVE PERMISSION IT IS EXPLICIT IN THE GPL.
I ALSO EMAILED TO CONFIRM MY INTENT (See later post from me below)

The software I plan to use is release under the GPL see link in original post, also non GPL orginators use MPL. I'm familliar with both, and I've also asked the authors again refer to my post.

seth

Mr_Skint wrote:

I did hear on the ole grapevine that if you give stuff away at a fair you could be in a bit of bother because its copyright infringement, not to sure though give theese dudes a ring or mail or summet http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/

Thanks Mr Skint for the prompt warning and quick reply. I have asked permission and checked the copyright position. I will also keep a copy of this the permission in writing.

You are correct the copright laws apply and are important and must be observed. I've checked and Copying software released under the GPL is allowed / encouraged, and you can sell it (see my orignal post or http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesTheGPLAllowMoney

If I was copying software release under a closed licence then yes it would be a infringment of that copyright! You have to realise that the GPL uses copyright to protect the users (and the producers) of copyright material. It is not the same a public domain licence.

These are reasonable guide to copyright for software ...
http://emoglen.law.columbia.edu/publications/lu-12.html
http://firstmonday.org/issues/issue4_8/moglen/index.html

This is a sample of the positive responses I have recived to my request.
Note the provision of templates for printing onto CD and references to burnings disks being encouraged! I even got an offer to create custom grpahics with the school logo for free!

----Original Message

---

From: Alex Fisher (openoffice.org)

Sent: 26 April 2005 23:22
To: Seth

Subject: Re: Hi there a quick question..

On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 07:09, Seth wrote:

Hi. the quick answer to all your questions is "Yes, yes and yes".

> Hi there I have been asked to see if is possible to copy and
> distribute CDs of Open Office for a local school fair.
> I can copy the CDs and donate them to the school all proceeds go to
> the local school.
> I wanted to ask permission?

You have it...

> If granted do you have
> 1) Printable CD images to print onto the CDs?

we have quite a few labels and inserts. They are mainly collected under the Art sub-project at <http://marketing.openoffice.org/art/>. The CD labels are at <http://marketing.openoffice.org/art/galleries/cdart/>.

> 2) Open office DVD insert image to print and use as DVD case inserts?
> The intent is to donate the disk at no cost to the school. They will
> sell the disk at the school fair for £5 all money would go to the
> school (a UK charity)

You may be interested in our Schools sub-project. They have their own mailing list, which you should consider joining (by sending an empty email to <educ-subscribe@marketing.openoffice.org>, then replying to the confirmation email.

One of the ideas put forward was a "burn-fest", where the students all take turns in burning one (or more) CDs... There is also "The INGOTS" (<http://www.theingots.org>), which offers a certification program in Office Technology. While it is based on OpenOffice.org (OO.o), it can also be used with the other office suite.

For more info, and for contact with your local OO.o marketing person, contact Ian Lynch, who is also the lead of the education project

*and* the creator of the INGOTS program...

--

Alex Fisher

Co-Lead, CD-ROM Project
OpenOffice.org Marketing
Community Contact
Australia/New Zealand
http://distribution.openoffice.org/cdrom/

newfoundglory

Its a good idea! However, I think you have to consider most people do run windows (which is of course unfortunate); and most people aren't inclined to install Linux or Unix.

I think under GPL, although you can sell it... you must distribute the source code on the CD too! (this is why most linux distros make money on support... since although they can charge for it you can dl it free online - and the GPL license states they must make the source/derived works freely available).

This is where software released under the BSD license (different from GPL) comes into its own - eg FreeBSD; which allows you to sell its code and not distribute the code or any changes you make. BSD will argue their software is more "free" then GPL because of this... but GPL will argue their license ensures the free software remains free in the future.

seth

newfoundglory wrote:

Its a good idea! However, I think you have to consider most people do run windows.

Yes I agree totally. That is why I was proposing Open source Windows Binaries Installers. Documentation PDF, and source (zipped) or source via web or order form.

newfoundglory wrote:

I think under GPL, although you can sell it... you must distribute the source code on the CD too! (this is why most linux distros make money on support... since although they can charge for it you can dl it free online - and the GPL license states they must make the source/derived works freely available)..

I have links for source on the GPL software on the CDs and a snail mail address for source code orders on physical media another disk. Refer to the GPL FAQ
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DistributeWithSourceOnInternet

newfoundglory wrote:

This is where software released under the BSD license (different from GPL) comes into its own - eg FreeBSD; which allows you to sell its code and not distribute the code or any changes you make. BSD will argue their software is more "free" then GPL because of this... but GPL will argue their license ensures the free software remains free in the future.

I agree the world needs both. There are issues with any licence. I think the freedom for copyright holders to choose and create new licences is important. I noticed that OpenBSD OpenSSH, of which I am a huge fan, is used in commercial products (Bloombery use it to secure their feeds in city trading floors) but Bloomburg do not follow the letter (or spirit) of the BSD style licence. I agree the viral nature of GPL is its attraction but can cause some issues especially in mixed code enviroments. Hsving said that the tide is turning I have a KISS DP-1000 DVD player and the code for that is available as is the source code for Playstation 2 which is also Linux based. Nokia's Checkpoint appliance is BSD based which I think is the exception that proves the rule. As appliances grow the SMP support in GPL product like Linux will shine through. So for example PS3 has the Synergistic processors (while others talk dual core) the cell process has 8 cores on chip, and the business plan for the Cell processor would not work on any licence other than GPL. This ensures the creators (IBM, Toshiba, Sony) and the developers no lock outs. IBM owns a lot of intellectual property, and they have a lot of lawyers. IBM use the GPL. They have also Open sourced a lots of code (Numa, StorageTank, JFS, Cloudscape, etc...) they spend billions developing. I think that says volumes.

"We designed the GPL to defend the freedom of users and programmers" to copy, modify, and redistribute code at will, Kuhn said. "(Other's) aim is to take away those freedoms."

FSF Vice President Brad Kuhn taken from http://www.itworld.com/Man/2685/IDG010503source2/pfindex.html

Fran

While it is apparently fine to distribute the software "for a distribution fee" (as they put it), I would be very unhappy if I bought a CD from your school only to find out that it is available free on the internet! It's the less computer literate who would "fall for" this, and yet you'd be doing it in aid of an educational establishment! I would feel conned, regardless or not whether the profit goes to the school and also I would feel ignorant when I found out my friend had all this stuff free! Also, doesn't it give the impression to the kids (and parents) that it's ok to copy things and sell them, after all they don't know the difference between the different licenses (I just read your links or I wouldn't have). Presumably all these videos, games etc. that are sold at school fairs, car boot sales and markets are sold illegally? I like the idea of mouse mats & mice etc., could you ask them to bring in computer items they don't want eg. old keyboards, printers etc. (if you haven't already thought of that).

seth

Mr_Skint wrote:

I think it is Lame in the extreme to Barate someone who posted a quick reply as I am not in the position to give a definitive answer, are you? If you are why did you start the thread in the first place just because I put up an incorrect website doesnt mean you can try to belittle them in a post its just rude.

I appreciate your helpful feedback. I did not mean to offend.

seth

Fran wrote:

I would be very unhappy if I bought a CD from your school only to find out that it is available free on the internet! It's the less computer literate who would "fall for" this, and yet you'd be doing it in aid of an educational establishment! I would feel conned, regardless or not whether the profit goes to the school and also I would feel ignorant when I found out my friend had all this stuff free!

I totally agree. To prevent this people who want to buy the CD will be offered the option of a download only URL free instead of a CD/DVD.
Do you think this will be ok, I plan to have a note to this effect handed to people who try to buy a CD/DVD?

Fran wrote:

Also, doesn't it give the impression to the kids (and parents) that it's ok to copy things and sell them, after all they don't know the difference between the different licenses (I just read your links or I wouldn't have).

I see your point, I'll have a think on how to address this.

ANY IDEAS WELCOME

Fran wrote:

I like the idea of mouse mats & mice etc., could you ask them to bring in computer items they don't want eg. old keyboards, printers etc. (if you haven't already thought of that).

Had not thought of that good call, I'll mension this. Everyone has some kit kicking about.

I could also include a Boot and Nuke CD and a Memtest CD, these wipe your computer and test the memory respectively. Also GPL but a good example of something worth buying as creating bootable media is beyond the average user.

Thanks for the comments and great ideas.

Browntoa

can Seth just not make it clear that all the software is available for free on the web, all has has done is collate it onto one disk and all monies raised are for the school ???

then no-one would feel they have been cheated , just that they have done their bit for the school ??

newfoundglory

Browntoa wrote:

can Seth just not make it clear that all the software is available for free on the web, all has has done is collate it onto one disk and all monies raised are for the school ???

then no-one would feel they have been cheated , just that they have done their bit for the school ??

I agree with the above! :beer:

Fran wrote:

While it is apparently fine to distribute the software "for a distribution fee" (as they put it), I would be very unhappy if I bought a CD from your school only to find out that it is available free on the internet! It's the less computer literate who would "fall for" this, and yet you'd be doing it in aid of an educational establishment! I would feel conned, regardless or not whether the profit goes to the school and also I would feel ignorant when I found out my friend had all this stuff free! Also, doesn't it give the impression to the kids (and parents) that it's ok to copy things and sell them, after all they don't know the difference between the different licenses (I just read your links or I wouldn't have). Presumably all these videos, games etc. that are sold at school fairs, car boot sales and markets are sold illegally?

I don't agree with this. While I'm sure that some people will think "thats a rip-off... you charged me for something thats free"; surely that *is* somewhat of a small-minded view of things.

I'm sure there are an awful lot of people who don't know what open-source free software is. Surely you are paying a small sum (which is going to the school!!) for the knowledge of how good this is... and to get a copy of all this useful software nicely packaged on a CD or DVD; so you can keep it and not have to find and download large files yourself? I'd pay for that if profits were going to a school!

Seth would also be doing open source a great favour by promoting it in this way. Take MS Office for example. Most PCs now only come with MS Works... which isn't great. Some parents will go out and pay £100s on getting the extras from Microsoft (so their kids can do that database work or whatever). Yet there is some fantastic software available and people don't know it!

The media and Microsoft would have you believe its illegal and wrong to copy anything or get it for free, which simply isn't true. The only people who are unlikely to be happy at the summer fair are the parents who are microsoft employees... who have probably had their brain washed by Bill Gates to say that the GPL is an evil on the world. I'm not mega anti-Microsoft, its just ironic given the fact its okay for Microsoft to take free code from BSD!

Large amounts of the networking code in MS Windows comes from BSD sources (inc. FreeBSD). Microsoft didn't write it. Is it right you paid all that money for windows (whether in box, or when you got your PC)... yet this code Microsoft used is available for free today, in original source, on the net? These background networking features are probably one of the things you use the most - to surf the web everyday, and connect to a home network!