Debt Recovery Plus letter relating to ticket in April 2012???

bazingamo

Coupon-mad wrote: »

The 'Newbies' thread section near the top, about your options re debt collector letters, isn't just about new ones. The info applies to any old ones too.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4848513

See that similar thread where I mentioned that I have just this afternoon edited the 'Newbies' thread to include the Parking Prankster blog about this.

OK, thank you for your help.

I'm now going to deny debt re DRP Ltd and then send an appeal to UKPC.

bazingamo

Coupon-mad wrote: »

There has been a mass mail-shot by UKPC this week, it seems - to scare a few idiots into paying up - but you really only need to respond if you get a Letter before Claim from a solicitor or from UKPC themselves. What happened when you complained to the retailer, like you would, if it was a retail park?!

Read this, it was at the top of the forum with the other sticky info threads newbies should read first!

NEWBIES!! PRIVATE PARKING TICKET? EVEN AN OLD ONE? ***READ THIS FIRST*** Thankyou!

...that thread covers in simple terms what all the acronyms mean, how to appeal with a DOZEN linked examples...what to do if you miss the appeal deadline & get to debt collector letters stage...copies of Debt Recovery Plus letters...and yet every day, newbies don't read it.

There's also a sticky thread about how to complain to the retailers to get these fake PCNs cancelled, if they were in retail/leisure parks.

And another one about how to deal with a Letter before County Court Claim 'LBCCC' (if you do get sent a real one from UKPC or the solicitor firm).







(why am I constantly replying simply to point out the sticky threads at the top of the parking board, that newbies are supposed to read first?).

Aha...so a development...

I went to appeal via UKPC online complaints (as advised by the University who employ the scumbags) and they say they cannot accept the appeal as the debt has been passed onto Debt recovery.

I'm guessing I'm in the clear as Debt Recovery still would not know who the driver was? Asssuming I'm still covered pre POFA? This also would mean I cannot get a POPLA code?

Coupon-mad

You are not 'in the clear' just because they say it's with a debt collector. You already knew that, after all. But you are covered/safe as keeper in a case that's pre-POFA, yes. So you write UKPC a formal letter (snail mail) or you wait and see if you get a LBCCC and then write a formal response letter.

There are 3 or 4 more threads like yours now:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4035787

HTH, don't panic, you could wait and see and be ready to respond to a formal LBCCC. It may all be scare tactics which is all UKPC have ever done in the past. You can actually get a POPLA code for a pre-POFA case but only if the PPC send you one (unlikely I would have thought) but can be worth trying to demand as a reasonable ADR as part of a robust response - as you will see from the LBCCC Fightback sticky thread, written by a retired Solicitor recently.

bazingamo

Coupon-mad wrote: »

You are not 'in the clear' just because they say it's with a debt collector. You already knew that, after all. But you are covered/safe as keeper in a case that's pre-POFA, yes. So you write UKPC a formal letter (snail mail) or you wait and see if you get a LBCCC and then write a formal response letter.

There are 3 or 4 more threads like yours now:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4035787

HTH, don't panic, you could wait and see and be ready to respond to a formal LBCCC. It may all be scare tactics which is all UKPC have ever done in the past. You can actually get a POPLA code for a pre-POFA case but only if the PPC send you one (unlikely I would have thought) but can be worth trying to demand as a reasonable ADR as part of a robust response - as you will see from the LBCCC Fightback sticky thread, written by a retired Solicitor recently.

Thank you for your help - I will appeal with the response below and see how i get on (feel free anyone to rip it to shreds/remove/add bits)

To whom it may concern:

I am appealing for the parking charge placed on xxxx reference xxxon the following:


• Appropriate Signage: although there are signs in this car park, the two which I have seen are located high up with a barely legible size of print unless you are up close.

• The fee is disproportionate. This charge is a disproportionate penalty, which is unenforceable in law. According to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations, parking charges on private land must not exceed the cost to the landowner during the period the motorist is parked there. In this case, the £120 charge you are asking for far exceeds the cost to the landowner of £1, which I have already paid through my salary. According to the Citizen's Advice Bureau, this charge should be reasonable and in line with the loss suffered by the University, which is £0.

• The Traffic Control Officers are University staff, they are not employed by UKPC, however the University contact (Joe bloggs) has previously stated “They are trained following the University's traffic regulations for parking, this has nothing to do with UKPC, they act on the University's behalf and not on behalf of UKPC”. This suggests they are in breach of BPA self ticketing guidelines and have not received training/signed confirmation that they have read the BPA CoP.

• Since there was no demonstrable loss/damage and yet a breach of contract has been alleged for a parking, it can only remain a fact that this 'charge' is an attempt at extorting an unlawful charge to impersonate a parking ticket.


Furthermore, if you reject my appeal I want to know whether the charge is supposed to be for breach of contract or trespass and how exactly the amount is arrived at? I will also require a POPLA code.

If you do reject the challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my expenses from you. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses, legal fees, etc. By continuing to pursue me you agree to pay these costs when I prevail.

If UKPC choose to pursue me please be aware that I will not enter into any correspondence and this will be the only email you will receive from me until you answer the specific points raised in my letter.

Redx

bazingamo wrote: »

Thank you for your help - I will appeal with the response below and see how i get on (feel free anyone to rip it to shreds/remove/add bits)

To whom it may concern:

I am appealing against the parking charge placed on xxxx reference xxxon the following:


• Inappropriate Signage: although there are signs in this car park, the two which I have seen are located high up with a barely legible size of print unless you are up close and not compliant with the BPA Code of Practice

• The fee is disproportionate and is clearly not a genuine pre-estimate of loss. This charge is therefore a disproportionate penalty, which is unenforceable in law. According to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations, parking charges on private land must not exceed the cost to the landowner during the period the motorist is parked there. In this case, the £120 charge you are asking for far exceeds the cost to the landowner of £1, which I have already paid through my salary. According to the Citizen's Advice Bureau, this charge should be reasonable and in line with the loss suffered by the University, which is £0. Your excessive charge even exceeds the BPA Code of Practice too

• The Traffic Control Officers are University staff, they are not employed by UKPC, however the University contact (Joe bloggs) has previously stated “They are trained following the University's traffic regulations for parking, this has nothing to do with UKPC, they act on the University's behalf and not on behalf of UKPC”. This suggests they are in breach of BPA self ticketing guidelines and have not received training/signed confirmation that they have read the BPA CoP.

• Since there was no demonstrable loss/damage and yet a breach of contract has been alleged for a parking, it can only remain a fact that this 'charge' is an attempt at extorting an unlawful charge to impersonate a parking ticket.

I also challenge your charge in that you do not have authority or contract to issue these invoices and no proof has ever been given to the contrary

Furthermore, if you reject my appeal then in your reply I want to know whether the charge is supposed to be for breach of contract or trespass and how exactly the amount is arrived at? I will also require a POPLA code as well if the charge is not cancelled.

If you do reject this challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my expenses from you. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses, legal fees, etc. By continuing to pursue me you agree to pay these costs when I prevail.

If UKPC still choose to pursue me please be aware that I will not enter into any further correspondence and this will be the only email you will receive from me until you answer the specific points raised in my letter and issue the POPLA code or a cancellation confirmation.

I made a few amendments and added a few pointers in there, not saying its perfect but I have chosen the additions from many templates on here, change as you wish

regards

Coupon-mad

That's a good response to send to UKPC, you've obviously read a few threads & links. Even if UKPC did try a few cases for court (first time ever for them if so) then I suspect they'd be less likely to pick ones where the person has shown themselves to have researched the issues making it unenforceable.

bazingamo

Debt recovery replied to my email saying 'all debt is denied' with a 'I have investigated your case and found you parked on have yellows' etc and attached photos of my car.

Can I ask, legally do they have to take the driver or just the RK to court? Which 'rules' am I currently under bearing in mind I got this ticket pre pofa?

On a different note....I have absolutely no idea who the driver was, both me and my partner worked there at the time, could have been either!

Half_way

Dear Debt recovery plus, re invoce/letter #####
I refer you to my previous correspondance, all debt is denied and you MUST refer this matter back to your client.
failiure to do this may result in me taking action against you.
you are nothing but powerless debt collectors, chasing after a debt that does not exist.

Coupon-mad

Threaten to report DRP to the Credit Services Association for breach of the new Oct 2013 Code of Practice for debt collectors.

Why do people worry so much about debt collector letters? These make me laugh, and I still carry the letter chain in my handbag (to show others about this con) and I got those over 5 years ago! Debt collectors are toothless and cannot start a court case:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=24362

Hope that link helps explain about debt collector letters. Did you read the other thread I linked before, and then read the Parking Prankster Blog about UKPC and this letter? Did you realise that UKPC have never been known to go to small claims court except when they were taken there? This info is discussed a few times a week and could be found just by searching the forum for 'UKPC' or 'Recovery' (you'd be reading thread results till 2015 at least!).

bazingamo

So this is a fun one....this is the reply I got to the email (above) sent to the university 'support services'. I also sent an email to DC+ that all debt was denied and any further correspondance would be classed as harassment.

[FONT=&quot]Thank you for your recent correspondence in relation to the above parking charge. You state that there was a problem with the appeals website not working, this may have been the case on the day that you initially tried to use it but this pcn was issued in April 2012, you would have had ample opportunity to re-try the website if you were incurring problems. UKPC have advised that they have had no significant downtime of their appeals website. There is also an option to post in your appeal. Neither the University nor UKPC have any record of an appeal against this pcn until now. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The University have rejected your appeal, the photos taken of your vehicle at the time clearly show that you were parked on double yellow lines which is against the University’s traffic regulations.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In response to your queries:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]Paragraph 9(2)b of schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, states that we must inform the registered keeper that the driver of a vehicle is
required to pay the parking charge in full. It also notes that as we do not know the driver’s name or current postal address, the registered keeper, if they were not the driver at the time, should inform the operator (i.e UKPC) of the name and address of the driver and pass the notice on to them. The Act also states that if, at the end of a period of 28 days (beginning with the day after the parking charge is sent) the parking charge has not been paid in full and the Operator does not know both the name and current address of the driver that they have the right to recover any unpaid part of the parking charge from the registered keeper.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]Parking charges are levied on the basis of a contract with the driver as detailed on signage displayed in the car parks. The signage sets out the terms and conditions of parking under which a driver is authorised to park and advises that a parking charge will be payable if the conditions of parking are not met by the driver. We ensure that signage containing the terms and conditions of parking is ample, clear, visible and in line with the British Parking Association’s Code of Practice to ensure that the driver is bound by them when they enter and remain on site, so that all users of the car parks are obliged to follow these terms and conditions of parking. It is settled law that a driver is deemed to have accepted the terms and conditions of parking by the act of parking in the car park. As a member of University staff you will be fully aware of our terms and conditions for parking.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]Our parking charges are not punitive, unfair or unreasonable in amount and indeed were approved by the University Executive Board in conjunction with UKPC and are in line with the British Parking Association’s guidelines. The amount of our parking charges is in line with the parking charges accepted by the Court as being legally permissible to claim. We reject the notion that our charges require drivers to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation and assert that our charges are a genuine pre-estimate of loss.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]The University of Birmingham has a contract with UKPC (which authorises them to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of parking of a vehicle on the land) that contains a confidentiality clause and as such we are not in a position to provide the contract to you. We also confirm that it is not necessary for us to provide you with a breakdown of parking charges at this time, that information is confidential but is available and would be provided to the Court in the course of Court proceedings if necessary and if payment has not been made before then.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]As a member of the Approved Operator Scheme, UKPC are audited by an independent assessor on behalf of the British Parking Association to ensure they have all the relevant contracts in place. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]UKPC have advised that as your parking charge notice was issued pre-Popla that you will be unable to appeal to them. As this is now in the hands of the debt collectors you should correspond with them directly. [/FONT]