Lending Parents Money

LEJC

having been in similar circumtances in the past about making adaptations to parents house...before you consider major works on the property to create an upstairs toilet look at all the other options too.


First and foremost whilst I appreciate that you would like to do this and you see the benefit to their life needs....what do your parents think...are they in agreement?


I would have willingly installed an upstairs loo and indeed a stair lift for mine but actually when I told them that it would require some work and them needing to have people in to do,they decided that actually they could manage very well as they were... .....


its a really good suggestion of contacting social services re attendance allowance payments and possibly if your parents will allow a social services review of their current living arrangements and care needs.


It sounds rather a strange suggestion but is there a private area upstairs where your father could use something like a commode...it may be a short term solution instead of looking at the work involved in a static bathroom area....or indeed a way of finding out if its a feesable solution without going the whole way and installing something upstairs without it then being used because they feel thers a perfectly good loo downstairs!!!!


In terms of would you lose your money if the house has to be sold for care...again having been in this position the house is only sold once neither party still lives there.


The cost of putting in an upstairs toilet fully partitioned off would probably be in the region of £2000...we installed a full bathroom at a cost of £3000 by converting an area of unused space upstairs....although if you are looking at using an existing bedroom and converting that to a bathroom you may need buildings regs.


do your parents have any savings...the sort of enhancements you describe to make life easier ie a new fridge could be funded by their savings...afterall if they have them what do they plan to use savings for rather than the comfort of their old age,and I'm sure that whatever split there is regaring a will yourself and your sibling would rather know that your parents had the things they needed rather than scrimping and saving to allow an inheritence


Ive re read that paragraph as I was typing it and I really dont want you to take offence at my words...but I do have extensive experience of dealing with 2 very "own minded" parents one of which had dementia also ...both who lived for several years in their own home before progressing to in home care slots and finally a nursing home ....at times its very difficult to get the balance right of providing whats needed in terms of care and comforts...but also respecting the way in which they choose to live


Best of luck.

Money_maker

LEJC wrote: »

It sounds rather a strange suggestion but is there a private area upstairs where your father could use something like a commode...it may be a short term solution instead of looking at the work involved in a static bathroom area....or indeed a way of finding out if its a feesable solution without going the whole way and installing something upstairs without it then being used because they feel thers a perfectly good loo downstairs!!!!

This is the thought which initially crossed my mind, particularly if the issue is mobility. If this deteriorates, the final case scenario may be dad sleeping downstairs as stairlifts are not suitable for everyone.

Perhaps its time to think about a more suitable house or definately get the occupational therapist in to assess. There is medication which can help with dementia, hopefully he is under the memory clininc as mojisola suggested.

Mojisola

If the parents are willing to have the work done, see if there is room to install a walk-in shower as well as a toilet upstairs. Try to "future proof" the house for them.

Most older people will physically deteriorate and having a elderly sick person in bed upstairs when the only washing facilities are downstairs can be a nightmare. A strip wash will do for a few days but cleaning up someone who has urinary or bowel problems who can't get downstairs to the bathroom is very difficult.

Alikay

Bearing in mind that your Dad's dementia is likely to get worse, along with both parents' mobility, is an upstairs toilet, and possible kitchen refurb. going to meet their needs for long?

It may be better for them to move into some kind of supported housing, and without meaning this to sound like a suggestion to "play the system", being unable to get to a loo and bedroom all on the same level may mean they could get allocated more suitable accommodation more rapidly now than if you had the work done, then applied afterwards. My mum was allocated a housing association flat whilst her own property was still on the market due to it not being suitable any more.

My mum and MIL both live in lovely pensioner's complexes that suit their needs and will continue to do so for many years, and don't have to worry about things like stairs, garden and property maintenance etc. They are also modern and cheap to heat.

74jax

My mother has a portable comode, one upstairs in the bedroom and one downstair sin the spare room.

Social services provided it and myself an dmy brother pay for a carer to empty it daily.

Could something like this be of help?

pmlindyloo

Kev76 wrote: »

I believe they have a will that leaves half to me and half to my brother. I don't see how this helps but I may be missing something.

Your parents could alter their will so that a greater percentage is left to you to take into account the investment that you have put into the property.


There are also ways to protect the property.


I won't say more because it always create a big hooha on these forums but it is perfectly possible and your parents should seek advice.

Mojisola

pmlindyloo wrote: »

Your parents could alter their will so that a greater percentage is left to you to take into account the investment that you have put into the property.

That won't protect Kev's money if the house has to be sold to pay for care.

If the money is classed as debt, it will be repaid. If all the capital from the house is used in care home fees, although he won't get an inheritance, at least he'll get his own money back.

Mr_Toad

First thing to note is that both my parents have dementia and I've been down the road you are on.

There are several things you need to do and quickly.

Get new wills drawn up, particularly your Mum's, and get the joint tenants agreement changed to tenants in common. As joint tenants each jointly own the home as tenants in common each own 50% if that makes sense.

Currently if your Mum should die before your father he will automatically become sole owner of the house and it will go towards care fees. If they are tenants in common your Mum can will her half to you and your siblings. This will protect half the home.

While she lives there the house will normally be disregarded when it comes to care fees.

You should also get a Lasting Power of Attorney for both parents. You don't have to activate it but once in place you are covered. Failure to do this will result in everything having to be done through the court of protection and this takes for ever and is very expensive!! With a LPA you can make the right decisions for your father. Social Service may offer to help sort things out. This is a service that they charge for.

Now the less pleasant bit. Dementia is a real bar steward! Your Dad might not deteriorate for a long time. On the other hand he might go down hill in a matter of weeks or months.

I was having a conversation with Dad on the Tues. he was admitted to hospital on the Thurs. with an infection and he never knew me again, it was that quick, he was discharged from the hospital into a care home two weeks later.

What I'm saying is that they may never get to use the toilet. Also, I'm not sure if, or how easy, it will be to protect your money. You need to take proper legal advice.

Another consideration is that there is move in some authorities to care for people in their own homes, this can include getting modifications done as part of the care package. You may not need to loan them the money.

I can not stress this point enough. Talk to the Alzheimer's Soc.

They are brilliant, they will point you in the right direction and can recommend a solicitor who specialises in this sort of thing. You can do most things yourself but if you make an error or fail to dot all the i's and cross the t's Social Services will pounce. They are increasingly short of funding and are aggressively pursuing money these days.

Get Attendance Allowance sorted and, once in place, Carers Allowance for your Mum.

I've met so many people through the Alzheimer's Soc. who thought they had plenty of time to sort thing out only to find out they've left it too late.

Good luck.

DigForVictory

+1 for what Mr.Toad has said.
He's hit all the nails I was going to mention squarely on the head.
And he's not kidding about dementia being very rough on the whole family.
Lend, give, whatever - when the dementia gets bad, your loved dad will look at you with confusion at best & fear at worst, and while you'd give every penny to have him back it doesn't work that way.
All the very best.

Mr_Toad

Reading my post back it gives the impression that I have a bit of a downer on Social Services.

This wasn't intended. They are under funded and under staffed and they will try it on.

They will try and get you to do stuff and pay for stuff. I have no idea if this is policy or simply individuals doing what they think they can get away with to ease both their workload and financial commitment.

I have nothing but praise for my local Social Services but you do have to show them you have a brain and won't take anything they say without questioning it.

When my fathers money was gone I contacted them. Initially I was told that I should:

1. Contact the care home and ask for payment to be deferred while things got sorted out.

2. Pay the fees myself while it was sorted, I'd get my money back at some unspecified later date. Yeah right!

Nothing was said directly but it was inferred that not doing this might mean my father being moved........... They played the emotional card.

I told them in no uncertain terms that 1. it was not my job to go grovelling to the care home and beg for deferred payment.

2. I was not going to lend Social Services any money on the very vague intimation that I'd get it back. What they really mean is that you might, if there's any left, get the money back from the estate.

"So in effect I'm paying myself back from money that's mine anyway?"

Ah. Embarrassed silence.

My father doesn't know who he is, who I or my Mum are. He doesn't know or care where he is, it could be the bridal suit at the Savoy or the boiler room at the local hospital.

Lastly everything Social Services do has to be in the patients best interest.

Once we'd cleared that up they were magnificent. They made no apology for trying it on but got stuck in and sorted it all out.