How far do I have to go back?

Richard53

WellKnownSid wrote: »

The big problem you have with older cars is that you'll invariably need to fix them yourself or find a 'old style' mechanic who can keep them on song. If your mechanic has only ever read about a K-jetronic system in a book, then they won't have the skills or (gauges) required.

I'm guessing you are being slightly tongue-in-cheek here, but yes, that's exactly the point. I used to do all my car maintenance myself, and enjoy it. The occasional fettling to keep it sweet was part of the fun of ownership. Now cars are bland and need less owner involvement, I have lost interest in them. I put diesel in the Mondeo, and give it to a garage once a year for MoT and service, and other than that I don't give it a thought. I keep a stable of older bikes and get my jollies from servicing, repairing and modifying them instead.

I am happy with simple EFI, but while modern computer control is very impressive and worry-free, it also cuts the owner off from any involvement with the car as a machine. And that's the bit I like. I was going to mention Land Rovers in my original post, but didn't want the post to be too long. 90s Land Rover technology is where it's at (the 200/300Tdi era being the ideal), but I've had a few of them, and from a speed and comfort point of view I feel I have moved on. Also, the reliability is relatively poor. But they earn affection, whereas the best I can say about the Mondeo is that I respect its abilities. (I'd still have a 90 or 110 as a second car, though.)

I'm lookinmg for a car that goes well, that I can maintain and fix within reasonable limits, and that has a kind of integrity - well made and designed, and built of good materials that don't go brittle or fall off. I'm happy to devote half an hour a week to keeping it sweet, and servicing it every 4k miles. I don't want ambient lighting you can't turn off, or a bell warning me about something that any competent driver shouldn't need warning about. "Bing-bong, the navigation system detects you are setting off on a long journey. Please make sure you have had a wee before you set off. Ignition will be disabled until you confirm bladder emptying by pressing the down arrow button on the infotainment unit."

Glad to see my suspicions are confirmed, and that BMW, Porsche, Audi, Mercedes and Saab are on the list. Hadn't considered Alfa, though. But you have to buy smartly, around the late 80s/early 90s, yes? Any particular model ranges to avoid, or cut-off years to bear in mind?

(Thanks for all the responses. Very interesting and helpful.)

Richard53

colino wrote: »

Wasn't the 2.8 the Cologne engine that Ford abandoned cam chains and cam belts and went to gear drive instead? Great idea until they changed the original camwheels from steel to fibre resin to reduce noise! Granadas and Capris of the era were fast in a straight line, but reversed easily into hedges on corners or the gearwheels stripped and they went bang.

I had the 2.8 in a Capri a long time ago. Very entertaining car, and definitely one for my list, apart from the fact that it rusted away before my eyes. If I could find a good one, I would have another in a flash.

RWD, LSD, and a wet roundabout. Yee-hah!

andygb

Richard53 wrote: »

Hadn't considered Alfa, though. But you have to buy smartly, around the late 80s/early 90s, yes? Any particular model ranges to avoid, or cut-off years to bear in mind?

(Thanks for all the responses. Very interesting and helpful.)

As an Alfa owner, I would say avoid the late eighties, early nineties, and go for the mid nineties to early 2000's.
Avoid the Selespeed gearboxes.
You could go for the 3/3.2 litre V6 engine, which sounds glorious, but you have to keep an eye on it, change the belts regularly and monitor the oil on a weekly basis, keeping it topped up to just below maximum.


2.0 156

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201311220080444/sort/default/usedcars/engine-size-cars/2l_to_2-5l/make/alfa_romeo/radius/1501/transmission/manual/postcode/me158hb/price-from/2000/fuel-type/petrol/price-to/3000/page/1/model/156/onesearchad/used%2Cnearlynew%2Cnew?logcode=p

2.0 GT

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201312100435805/sort/default/usedcars/onesearchad/used%2Cnearlynew%2Cnew/price-from/2000/page/1/make/alfa_romeo/postcode/me158hb/model/gt/price-to/3000/radius/1501/fuel-type/petrol?logcode=p

harveybobbles

andygb wrote: »

I agree with this, because I had a 1994 520i which was lovely to drive - sold it to a mate with 140K miles on it, and it is still going strong.
This one is the later E39 model, but what a lovely car for the money!

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201311119834934/sort/default/usedcars/postcode/me158hb/onesearchad/used%2Cnearlynew%2Cnew/make/bmw/model/5_series/body-type/saloon/fuel-type/petrol/page/1/price-to/3000/engine-size-cars/2l_to_2-5l/price-from/2500/radius/1501?logcode=p

A 520i base with leather.

Get a 530i - much better on fuel too..!

Richard53

andygb wrote: »

I agree with this, because I had a 1994 520i which was lovely to drive - sold it to a mate with 140K miles on it, and it is still going strong.
This one is the later E39 model, but what a lovely car for the money!

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201311119834934/sort/default/usedcars/postcode/me158hb/onesearchad/used%2Cnearlynew%2Cnew/make/bmw/model/5_series/body-type/saloon/fuel-type/petrol/page/1/price-to/3000/engine-size-cars/2l_to_2-5l/price-from/2500/radius/1501?logcode=p

That would seem to be an amazing car for the money, but the level of technology (stability control, TC, lecky everything) is probably more than I would want. I've done a bit of research following advice on here, and I love the look of the E34 - nicer then the E39 if I am honest.

I used to own a Triumph Dolomite (the original 1854 cc, before all the HL variants) and it was a great drive, although unreliable and rusted badly. But the concept (simple low-tech RWD saloon with decent speed and comfort) was sound. Something like that, but properly built and with refinements like electronic ignition would be heading in the right direction.

Lum

Allowing simple EFI, as per post #22 suddenly makes this a lot simpler, at least for me. Get something 90s and Japanese. How do you feel about imports?

I'm a bit of a Nissan fangirl, so I'd suggest:

1988-1994 - S13 Nissan 200SX (1.8t RWD)
1994-1997 - S13 Nissan 180SX import (2.0t RWD, same car as above otherwise)
1988-1994 - R32 Nissan Skyline GTS-t import (2.0t 6cyl RWD)
1988-1993 - A31 Nissan Cefiro SE-t* import (2.0t 6cyl RWD, maybe not stylish enough)

Others to go for would include:

AE86 Toyota Corolla (Sprinter Trueno or Levin depending on if you like pop up headlights) - though probably overpriced or thrashed due to scene tax on these.
Toyota Chaser (another 6cyl turbo RWD car)
Mazda AZ-1 (rare, overpriced, but certainly distinctive!)
Mazda Cosmo (though beware as it has a rotary engine. One variant is a 2.0t though!)

That's about all I can think of right now.

* I have the SE-4, the 4WD variant of this, and utterly love it, so I may be biassed.

Richard53

Thanks Lum. I've never had a Japanese car (although I have had loads of Jap bikes). My Dad had a Honda Accord back in the day (D reg, I think, 1980-ish) and I thought it was too plasticky for my taste, and even Dad at 5' 8" found it lacked headroom. Also, a lot of Jap cars from that era were terrible for rust, and I have never really considered owning one. That said, Jap bikes are generally brilliant, reliable, durable etc, so maybe my prejudice is unfounded.

Something else to add to the mix, so thank you.

I've been looking online at a couple of Porsches tonight (924 and 944) and I think I've fallen in lurve.

BTW, I did say in the first post that I was happy with both carbs and EFI. To me, EFI and electronic ignition are utterly standard technology now, and nothing to be alarmed about. CanBUS electronics, not so much.

colino

Don't be taken in with the 924, not even the pretend S with the 2.5 engine. Get the real deal 944 from mid-86 onwards up to the S2 and non-turbo, the one when it went from the 70's dashboard up to a proper, timeless, classic. Remember to get specialist insurance quotes too, they really are quick, not just for their age.

Lum

Richard53 wrote: »

Thanks Lum. I've never had a Japanese car (although I have had loads of Jap bikes). My Dad had a Honda Accord back in the day (D reg, I think, 1980-ish) and I thought it was too plasticky for my taste, and even Dad at 5' 8" found it lacked headroom. Also, a lot of Jap cars from that era were terrible for rust, and I have never really considered owning one. That said, Jap bikes are generally brilliant, reliable, durable etc, so maybe my prejudice is unfounded.

The rust is an issue, but this is part of the reason why I'm recommending imports. Japan does not salt its roads, which is why their UK cars are rustbuckets, but also why the imports are usually pretty damn clean. Mine was 16 years old when it came over here and still had its original wire hoseclips!

So long as one of the first things you do after its registered is give it a good proper underseal (I used this guy) and the only rust repair I've had to do is where some tyre shop muppet jacked it on a non-load-bearing point) or ensure that the first UK owner did so, you'll be fine.

Engine-wise, the 90s Japanese cars are, it seems to me at least, at about the point where cars reached peak reliability. They aren't always the most efficient as they tend to be designed to run a little rich but they do seem to be pretty damn bulletproof with loads of headroom for modifying without swapping out engine internals, e.g. the 2.6 Skyline GTR* engine is good for about 500bhp on stock internals.

Since then, in the push for greater and greater fuel efficiency, engines seem to have gotten more delicate and fiddly again to the point that even modern diesels have reliability issues if you don't drive them in a specific way!

You are right about the interiors though. The German cars of a similar era are generally considered to have nicer interiors. For me this wasn't really something I was bothered about though. Comfy seats and sensibly laid out buttons within easy reach and I'm happy.

Height wise, I'm 6 foot tall, and my torso is about 2 inches longer than is typical for most women. I still fit in the Cefiro, though it's getting close. In my partner's 200SXs I was ok in her first one, but not her second as it has a sunroof and so the roof is a little lower, so I guess if you're over 6 foot these suggestions might not be so good for you.

* The GTR is 4WD which is why I haven't recommended it, but since it's RWD with only part-time 4WD that you can disable by pulling a fuse, it may also be an option for you. Unmodified ones look really nice!

Richard53

colino wrote: »

Don't be taken in with the 924, not even the pretend S with the 2.5 engine. Get the real deal 944 from mid-86 onwards up to the S2 and non-turbo, the one when it went from the 70's dashboard up to a proper, timeless, classic. Remember to get specialist insurance quotes too, they really are quick, not just for their age.

Exactly the kind of info I was looking for here. Thank you.

Lum wrote: »

The rust is an issue, but this is part of the reason why I'm recommending imports. Japan does not salt its roads, which is why their UK cars are rustbuckets, but also why the imports are usually pretty damn clean. Mine was 16 years old when it came over here and still had its original wire hoseclips!

So long as one of the first things you do after its registered is give it a good proper underseal (I used this guy)

...

Height wise, I'm 6 foot tall, and my torso is about 2 inches longer than is typical for most women. I still fit in the Cefiro, though it's getting close. In my partner's 200SXs I was ok in her first one, but not her second as it has a sunroof and so the roof is a little lower, so I guess if you're over 6 foot these suggestions might not be so good for you.

Thanks for the detailed info. I know a few of my Landy mates have used Chris Parkinson, but I never had a LR new enough to justify using him But the idea is great.

I'd forgotten about the sun roof issue. Dad's Accord had a sunroof and we reckoned it took 2" off the headroom. At 5' 8", his hair touched the headlining, and at 6' I had to bend my neck to sit in the driver's seat. He offered me the car when he wanted to trade in, but although I was tempted, it wouldn't have been realistic.

Nice GTR!