Benefit Fraud - Fessing Up.

sarbaloosa

Hi,

We have some family friends that live in a council property and have been claiming housing benefit amongst other benefits for a while. What they didn't realize was to inform the authorities that the wife had inherited some gold from a deceased member of her family worth up to the value of £150,000. She inherited this amount after 20 years of living in the council home. The jewelry is still as it is and been left there as it was when they received it approximately 4 years ago.

Contrary to majority opinion, we believe our friends had genuinely made a mistake by not declaring this for the last 4 years and as such have benefited from government relief unknowingly.

This family is an older family, struggles with English, have their forms filled in by others as they cannot understand or do them themselves, one suffers from Dementia and the other from a number of bad medical conditions.

Now, here's the thing, they havent been called in or copped. What has happened is that someone (me) has explained to them what has happened and after realizing this, they want to be forthcoming and tell the government what has happened and clear this matter up.

By clearing this matter up, they mean they want to willingly go forward and explain what has happened for a while and have accepted the fact that they may need to pay whatever has been claimed over the past 4 or so years.

Something that confuses me:

1. If the wife inherited the amount, is the husband entitled to housing benefit and/or any other benefits?

2. In light of the asset value, it is likely that their housing benefit will be stopped. Are they eligible to claim anything else for support? They do not work and suffer pretty badly from a medical standpoint.

3 As they are going to be forthcoming with all of the above, what is likely to happen to them? Fine, Jail, Penalties, Pay Backs, credit rating tarnished....etc?

Any other advice would be welcomed.

Thanks

letthemeatcake

I think it is in gold and not in the bank. I hope its not kept under the mattress.

Sorry I was answering a post that has now been deleted. it suggested that the couple had £150 000 in the bank.

sarbaloosa

In metal. And no not under the mattress. They have left it as is and never looked at it twice since getting it.

BigAunty

sarbaloosa wrote: »

1. If the wife inherited the amount, is the husband entitled to housing benefit and/or any other benefits?

2. In light of the asset value, it is likely that their housing benefit will be stopped. Are they eligible to claim anything else for support? They do not work and suffer pretty badly from a medical standpoint.

3 As they are going to be forthcoming with all of the above, what is likely to happen to them? Fine, Jail, Penalties, Pay Backs, credit rating tarnished....etc?

I'm not sure whether or not that inherited jewellry is classed as capital. Gold bars - perhaps? Get expert advice rather than relying on advice given by forum members as this seems to be a rare issue to crop up on this forum.

This article says jewellry is a personal possession and not capital.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/2764716/How-the-means-test-works-and-how-to-beat-it.html

This links defines what is classed as capital

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/money-matters/claiming-benefits/means-tested-benefits/

If her inheritance is classed as capital (I don't know if it is), then yes, it would affect the couple since the calculations are based on joint household income.

Make sure that this couple is claiming all the benefits they are entitled to, including pension credit if their income is low, attendance allowance/carers allowance/PIP (replacing DLA) if they are eligible for this due to care needs. This site should help or they could go to the Citizens Advice Bureau for a benefits check. The Direct Gov website has information on these benefits, too.

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/money-matters/claiming-benefits/means-tested-benefits/

sarbaloosa

BigAunty wrote: »

I'm not sure whether or not that inherited jewellry is classed as capital. Gold bars - perhaps? Get expert advice rather than relying on advice given by forum members as this seems to be a rare issue to crop up on this forum.

This article says jewellry is a personal possession and not capital.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/2764716/How-the-means-test-works-and-how-to-beat-it.html

This links defines what is classed as capital

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/money-matters/claiming-benefits/means-tested-benefits/

If her inheritance is classed as capital (I don't know if it is), then yes, it would affect the couple since the calculations are based on joint household income.

Make sure that this couple is claiming all the benefits they are entitled to, including pension credit if their income is low, attendance allowance/carers allowance/PIP (replacing DLA) if they are eligible for this due to care needs. This site should help or they could go to the Citizens Advice Bureau for a benefits check. The Direct Gov website has information on these benefits, too.

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/money-matters/claiming-benefits/means-tested-benefits/

Thank you for this and yes I agree, I think it is rare that someone has decided to do the right thing and wants to be forthcoming about this.

Just to dig deeper regarding your last paragraph. Let's assume the Jewelry is considered capital, are they allowed to claim all you have listed in the final paragraph despite sitting on some treasure worth 150k?

The only benefits I think that are going to come into dispute since this revelation is Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefits. Is there anything else you can think of?

Thanks,

Prothet_of_Doom

How many people have items of sentimental value to them, which might or might not be real, and actually worth loads if they choose to sell it ? I'd be pretty shocked if I was forced to sell my grandmother's massive diamond ring, which is a family heirloom, in order to live on benefits. I hope and pray that our country is BETTER than that.

NYM

Would this be the same couple that inherited a house 4 years ago and now want to use RTB ....

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/63987698#Comment_63987698

spacey2012

IMO : They will go to prison for at least 18 months each.

BigAunty

sarbaloosa wrote: »

Just to dig deeper regarding your last paragraph. Let's assume the Jewelry is considered capital, are they allowed to claim all you have listed in the final paragraph despite sitting on some treasure worth 150k?

The only benefits I think that are going to come into dispute since this revelation is Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefits. Is there anything else you can think of?

If the Jewelry is capital (the jury is out on this though as it may well be classed as a personal possession), then non-means tested benefits like PIP (formerly DLA), carers allowance aren't affected.

I don't know the position on Pension Credit but you can easily identify this from the links I've provided.

It would affected means tested benefits like council tax or housing benefit, income support.

How old are they - are they state pension age?

BigAunty

NYM wrote: »

Would this be the same couple that inherited a house 4 years ago and now want to use RTB ....

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/63987698#Comment_63987698

I'm confused - does this OP use multiple usernames on MSE? Or is this post not linked at all?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4839829

Because if the OP and the other username is the same person, and the couple in the posts are the same couple as in this thread, then his relatives have already committed benefit fraud by not declaring the property they inherited.

This would have made them ineligible for housing benefit and council tax benefit at their existing council property, plus the income support that is mentioned.

When they signed for these benefits, they would be obliged to report changes in circumstance. Each time they renewed them, the forms would ask them if they had any capital. The fact that they received no rental income is irrelevant - the second property is classed as capital. Capital above 6k reduces entitlement to means tested benefits while capital above 16k rules it out.

If this is the case, they have many years of CT, IS and HB to pay back, plus the risk of prosecution.

Errata

Taking a view: If I was on HB/CTB and inheritied furniture/artwork to the value of £150k would I be expected to flog it to pay them myself?