Oooh Kennel Club makes me frustrated!

Wellyboots6

Finally had a response from the KC regarding trying to register LS on the Activity Register.

According to the KC his microchip is already on their database for breed and activity register, under his first owners name I imagine.

Without contact with the first owner to get his certificates there is no way they can change ownership details on his record with them. I am not allowed to know what he is already registered as due to not being down as the current owner.

I cannot re-register him.

Therefore I cannot enter him in any Kennel Club events. Such a shame as he is doing really well at his agility (if he were allowed to compete in a dog-free-vacuum!).

When I was looking in to doing his Good Citizens Award he would have had to do it under his 'common' name too.

Feels a bit like he is discounted because he is a rescue

Or maybe I am just taking it all too personally, as he is unlikely to develop the manners to be allowed out in public any time soon anyway!

MrsAtobe

No, I don't think you are taking it too personally. Our last dog was KC registered to her last owner but one who we think ran a puppy farm. Certainly only one of her litters was registered with the KC - and she had had a LOT of litters. Because her previous owners didn't update the change of ownership with the KC, they wouldn't register her to us. As she was a working breed with certain known health issues, which are being researched through the blood lines, it really frustrated me that they wouldn't update the ownership details so that anyone doing research could contact us. It must he even more frustrating for you, when he can't do something fun because of the KC rules.

Wellyboots6

Wow I hadn't even thought of the health aspects of it all. Makes you wonder how many health issues could be reduced if they could keep up to date records.

krlyr

Maybe see if the microchip company would write to confirm change of details (presuming you've changed his chip details), if that's the reference they use for ID?

Wellyboots6

Thanks for the suggestion krlyr, but I very much doubt it would change anything. They are aware I am the new owner as I provided all the details they needed; dob, chip number, pet passport details, previous owners details used to register him etc which they confirmed.

They are saying they need the previous owner to provide his original registration certificate and fill a change of owner form in before they can make any changes, even though I have explained that the previous owner has probably moved as noone, including the vet and microchip company have been able to get a response from them.

I have given them more info on him than you would get with most rescue dogs.

The only other option would be to get him re-chipped and register him as a brand new dog. I am reluctant to do this though as his chip number has been used for insurance, vets, his babysitter has it etc so will mean a lot of changing things over. Also he doesn't appreciate being poked and prodded!

It's not a major deal, just frustrating!

Frugalista

I'm sorry katy721 but I think you are being extremely unfair to the Kennel Club here.

You have posted previously about trying to obtain your boys' papers -
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4634251=
- and admitted that the way in which you obtained him was somewhat questionable ie. the original owner is not aware that the second owner passed him on to you.

katy721 wrote: »

According to the KC his microchip is already on their database for breed and activity register, under his first owners name I imagine.

Without contact with the first owner to get his certificates there is no way they can change ownership details on his record with them. I am not allowed to know what he is already registered as due to not being down as the current owner.

I cannot re-register him.

This is absolutely right. The rules are quite clear - you need to have the original owners sign to transfer his documents into your name. The KC have no way of knowing if he has been stolen (for example - not implying that this is the case here).

katy721 wrote: »

Wow I hadn't even thought of the health aspects of it all. Makes you wonder how many health issues could be reduced if they could keep up to date records.

In your previous thread you said that his original owner had already had him hip x-rayed, etc so the data has already been logged.

katy721 wrote: »

They are saying they need the previous owner to provide his original registration certificate and fill a change of owner form in before they can make any changes, even though I have explained that the previous owner has probably moved as noone, including the vet and microchip company have been able to get a response from them.

I have given them more info on him than you would get with most rescue dogs.

The only other option would be to get him re-chipped and register him as a brand new dog. I am reluctant to do this though as his chip number has been used for insurance, vets, his babysitter has it etc so will mean a lot of changing things over. Also he doesn't appreciate being poked and prodded!

It's not a major deal, just frustrating!

So why don't you contact his original owner yourself?

The second owner took him with "limited paperwork" before passing him on to you. I think your gripe should be with her and not the Kennel Club - they are simply following the correct procedure.

ETA: At the end of the previous thread you said you were going to e-mail his breeder - what happened there?

Wellyboots6

You are right Frugalista, I was trying to get his original papers to try and sort this out.

I have tried to contact the original owners, and so have the vets and microchip company but they have not responded.

I did contact who I thought was his breeder only it turned out that they weren't, and I couldn't get much further with that avenue.

The second owner has given me what information she had, and so again that avenue has dried up too.

I'm not sure I understand the benefit of logging data on his hip x-rays etc and then not being able to use that data. If I were to breed him (not that I would, or could!) then if there were issues I would not know and could pass any problems on to future litters.

I do understand that KC cannot break the rules for me, I wouldn't expect them to. It just seems to be difficult for rescues to get involved in KC activities.

moggymutt

Frugalista, if the kc is acting this way only in case the dog might be stolen, then the owner should have at least told the microchip company that the dog was missing.

Frugalista

katy721 wrote: »

I'm not sure I understand the benefit of logging data on his hip x-rays etc and then not being able to use that data. If I were to breed him (not that I would, or could!) then if there were issues I would not know and could pass any problems on to future litters.

The data is there on the Kennel Club site - you just need his pedigree name to access it .

Anyone planning on breeding a KC registered animal can research the health status of siblings / parents/ grandparents / prospective mates, etc by entering the registered name of the dog being researched.

That said, there are only certain health test results (in any given breed) that are logged - things like epilepsy, monorchidism, incorrect mouths, and suchlike have to be taken on trust by "word of mouth". This is why people are better off buying from a well established breeder who will know all this sort of detail from years of involvement in their breed.

People breeding from unregistered stock have no way of checking any health status - and, in my personal opinion, should not be breeding from the animal in question anyway!

RE the original owner - is the address local to you? Can you call round there? If the original owner has moved maybe there is a forwarding address? You say she got a new dog after handing your boy over to the second owner - do you know if she showed him or attended any local training classes, maybe you could approach them? Whereabouts do you live - maybe there is a local GSD club who may know of her? If you really want to get this resolved you are going to have to turn into Sherlock Holmes and do some work.

I am surprised you say you cannot take part in KC events as there are plenty of crossbreeds/unregistered dogs who compete at Crufts, etc. I know that a pig and a sheep have both achieved their Good Citizen qualifications and they are definitely not KC registered :rotfl:.

I'm afraid I am more into the showing side of things so don't know much about the "Activity" scene - lets hope someone else will come along who can shed some light.

Frugalista

moggymutt wrote: »

Frugalista, if the kc is acting this way only in case the dog might be stolen, then the owner should have at least told the microchip company that the dog was missing.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda - I was merely using that as an example - it was the first thing I could think of.

The KC is acting absolutely correctly. To transfer the ownership of a dog you need the previous owner to sign the documents - thems the rules!!

Wellyboots6

Frugalista wrote: »

The data is there on the Kennel Club site - you just need his pedigree name to access it .

This is my point. It seems daft the KC having the information but not being able to pass it on to the person who may need it!

Some good ideas there for other detectivey points to try though!