End of the road for Chevrolet in Europe

GolfBravo

k12479 wrote: »

The Koreans did not get where they are themselves either. They've produced a lot of vehicles under licence, they have and do extensively use consultants and suppliers. Farming out to different specialists does not guarantee good integration, quality, etc. and it certainly doesn't guarantee desirability or sales. A good product alone is not sufficient (maybe not even necessary, western manufacturers have produced enough junk).

IMHO some (definitely not all) Chinese brands will do much better than the Koreans did years ago.

Chinese manufacturers don't rely on export markets as much as Korean - the Korean car market is quite small and protected. From day one they had to export large numbers of cars to get the cashflow going. And let's face it, until only a few years ago anything out of Korea was utter carp. The Chinese on the other hand have a huge internal market - any export markets will be just a bonus, so they can take their time to develop their distribution channels and brand.

And the location of their 2 R&D centres, Munich (Germany) and Graz (Austria), is no coincidence - they will expand here.

The new Qoros is already available in Europe - they launched it in Slovakia in September and will slowly expand around Eastern Europe first (just like Dacia did). At this stage it is Eastern Europe only as they love sedans there (Qoros 3 is at this stage available as a sedan only). They say they are "going to learn how to sell in Europe" (they are establishing their own dealer and distribution network) first, and then in 2015 they are to launch in Germany (Europe's toughest market) with a hatch, estate and SUV. At this stage there is only 1 model available: 156PS 1.6 turbo, with 6-speed dual clutch automatic transmission, full leather, sunroof, internet/cloud, satnav, etc. €20950 (£17500) drive away. Metallic paint is the only option.

BTW, I just looked at their NCAP result: better than Golf 7. :eek: So quite a bit of progress since 2005 when Chinese Brilliance and Landwind cars didn't even pass a single EU crash test.

And yes, I agree that prices of Chinese goods will eventually rapidly increase, but most car manufacturers will be impacted by this anyway as China is a major source of automotive components.

k12479

GolfBravo wrote: »

Chinese on the other hand have a huge internal market - any export markets will be just a bonus, so they can take their time to develop their distribution channels and brand.

The Chinese market isn't so protected though and that will leave global players, even through JVs as you mention, competing with local players. Given the economies of scale of global purchasing, development, etc. I would question how local/regional-only players would be able to compete effectively and for how long. In addition, the domestic consolidation which has to happen could well mix things up quite unexpectedly.

GolfBravo wrote: »

The new Qoros is already available in Europe...just like Dacia did.

You are aware that Dacia isn't new, right? They've had a continuous existence for decades and even exported to the UK years ago, there'll certainly be brand awareness in a lot of Europe. Their case of 'Dacia by Renault' is like 'Skoda by VW' with all the advantages that brings, quite different from the challenges in setting up from scratch.

You make some good points, but we'll probably have to agree to disagree a little. In a few years, one of us can say 'told you so'. Or possibly neither of us.

jase1

Holden to end manufacturing in Australia:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25328924

I see this as being closely related to the Chevrolet news -- GM is quite obviously seeking to centralise production in a few key factories, and also streamline branding to a single marque in each region (US excluded -- for now).

Holden branding will doubtless continue in Aus -- but car production will be elsewhere, most likely in Korea.

Once again, my view is that this is the new GM blueprint moving forward -- meaning that peripheral factories, like Ellesmere Port, are for the chop, and any production in Europe will be further concentrated wherever possible and/or augmented by production further afield (i.e. Korea).

colino

Well done BBC, last to know anything newsworthy.
PS I think Mandela may be poorly.

GolfBravo

jase1 wrote: »

Holden to end manufacturing in Australia

Yes, received an email this morning from my GM Holden pension fund saying "good news, your pension is safe". !!!!!!? But then I noticed a tweet from Auto Zeitung.

jase1 wrote: »

Holden branding will doubtless continue in Aus -- but car production will be elsewhere, most likely in Korea.

Spent some time on Facebook today chatting to my Holden colleagues: they expect Holden's market share to drop to b/w 3 and 4% following end of production in Oz. Currently they are at around 10%, in 2001 they were 21.5%.

BTW, Chinese car manufacturers are already trying to headhunt Holden's engineers.

With their lineup 100% carp from Korea and the US, they will struggle in Australia just like Chevy struggled in Europe. IMHO no Australian manufacturing = the brand is finished in Australia.

jase1 wrote: »

Once again, my view is that this is the new GM blueprint moving forward -- meaning that peripheral factories, like Ellesmere Port, are for the chop, and any production in Europe will be further concentrated wherever possible and/or augmented by production further afield (i.e. Korea).

GM in Detroit have this strange mentality: there is the US GM, and there is the foreign/lesser GM. 2 years ago they were ready to abandon Europe, and sell all remaining assets to Magna, but then they realised that Opel/Vauxhall pay Detroit over €900 million each year for intellectual property rights (even for stuff designed in Europe). They keep threatening governments across Europe: Ellesmere Port is for the Chop, then Rüsselsheim, then Gliwice, then even Korea and Canada - GM love all their subsidies and tax breaks.

Their main focus is now on their domestic market and China.

PS
Subject to finance, really tempted to import one of these while still available (6.0l V8, 360hp/530NM)

CKhalvashi

bigjl wrote: »

Lots of minicab drivers will miss Chevrolet

Loads buy ex Motabilty Chevrolets as they have a choice of estates with autoboxes for stupid money

You could see the Vauxhall dna in the interior of the Lacetti

Really? I've never seen one as a taxi/minicab.

We run a fleet of Skoda Superbs and VW Caddy Maxi/Shuttles, as all three are cheap to buy (usually at about a year old), cheap to maintain and last forever.

1yr old/20k miles 2.0 TDi Superb DSG, with leather, sat nav etc is about £15k, and with maintainence costs us about 15p/mi over the next 30 months and 150k miles, and we're taking about 40p/mile from them. These are far superior to any Chevy.