Property is unregistered, title deeds can not be located.

dremario

I hope someone in the know can help me with this matter.
I am buying a property in London and a month ago I instructed a local solicitor to do the conveyancing, but they have been very slow in communicating relevant information. Today I received this email from them:
“I refer to your email below and apologise for not being in contact sooner.

You will note that the property is unregistered and that the seller’s solicitors cannot locate the title deeds. In addition the property is being sold by executors of the estate of a deceased person. The above means that the transaction is likely to take longer than average, possibly substantially so. In view of the absence of any title deeds I have asked the seller’s solicitors to register the property at the Land Registry before we proceed. We would have to do this anyway on completion of your purchase however I am concerned that there could be significant problems with this in view of the lack of title deeds.

In addition the seller’s solicitor will have to obtain the grant of probate on behalf of the seller. This process can take a number of months though I do not know what stage they have reached with this. I will write again today to ask them to advise the position but you may also want to speak to the estate agent who may know more.”

From the above I understand there are two main issues:

1. The property is currently not registered with the Land Registry and this registration is further hampered by the fact that the title deeds could not be located.
My question is how significant a problem this could turn out to be and is there any solution at all? If the seller’s solicitors cannot register the property with the Land Registry, should I walk away from this purchase?

2. “the seller’s solicitors will have to obtain the grant of probate on behalf of the seller”.
What does this mean? How significant a problem is this and is there a way of solving it?

In view of rapidly rising property prices should I wait a few more months hoping that the above issues could be solved or should I start looking for another property?


You probably are thinking why I do not ask my solicitors. The thing is they turned out to be very slow in responding and I am starting to lose trust in them.

Orford

If the seller’s solicitors cannot register the property with the Land Registry, should I walk away from this purchase?

Yes

the seller’s solicitors will have to obtain the grant of probate on behalf of the seller”.
What does this mean? How significant a problem is this and is there a way of solving it?

Since the house forms part of the deceased's estate, even if it had been registered, it cannot be sold before probate has been granted. There's no way round it.

G_M

Read

http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/professional/guides/practice-guide-2

Probate can take a few weeks, or if there are disputes over the will etc,can take months (or years).

kingstreet

Unregistered land, lost deeds and probate.

Start running...!

PasturesNew

Worst case scenarios:

[1] The house is not theirs to sell. The delay gets this sorted out.
[2] The house may not be theirs to sell. The process gets this sorted out.

Nothing you can do about this really - the solicitor is ensuring that the house IS theirs to sell -and- they have the authority to sell it.

RupertTheCat

I recently purchased a property that wasn't registered because the last time it had changed hands was in the 1940s. We did manage to get it registered etc, but it did take about 6 months to sort out, so I suppose it depends if you mind the delay or not.

Though if there are other issues as well, I would be wary. It also depends on how good your conveyancing solicitor is. Mine fortunately is brilliant and can sort most things out.

Road_Hog

dremario wrote: »

2. “the seller’s solicitors will have to obtain the grant of probate on behalf of the seller”.
What does this mean? How significant a problem is this and is there a way of solving it?.

First question has been answered. Probate is the legal process of establish that a will is valid and there is nobody else with a valid claim. It basically covers them from comebacks.


How long it takes, is on the complexity and if there are any challenges. I did probate for a friend a few years back (he was bad with paperwork and legal speak).


It was straightforward, his wife had died and he had one child, no one else involved. order the forms up, filled them in, let him sign them and wait for a date. I don't think it took much longer than two weeks. I fear that yours will very complicated and take a fair amount of time.

AlexMac

Our kids set their heart on a house which wasn't properly registered, and was leasehold (the only lease also being incompetent and dating from the early 1900's) despite it being a Victorian semi which anywhere else in the country would be freehold. Their solicitor told them to walk away. The vendor sacked their conveyancing solicitor (a cheap, incompetent online outfit who couldn't cope andf wasted 2 months in denial) and switched to a local firm who knew the quirks of this type of tenure; but who said it would take many months to sort.

But it was their 'house for life'; it ticked all the boxes for a growing family and was really cheap- earlier attempts by the vendor to sell having fallen through- perhaps because of the hookey tenure.

So they persisted, even though it meant moving into rented accommodation or losing their own sale (at a good price), put the pressure on and told their solicitor to sort it herself (not trusting the other side. Which, she (their and our solicitor) did. But she's mega-efficient, fast and really competent, and our daughter in law also cut corners by schmoozing the Land Registry and the ancient Family trust freeholder (by the end she was on 1st name terms with people in both).

But if your Lawyer is lazy, uncommunicative or just crep, and if you don't have many months to burn, and if this isn't the only house in the world, do you really want the grief, or would you be better off learning a lesson, swallowing the wasted fees and walking away?

dancingfairy

Basically someone has to wind up the affairs of the deceased. They need to find out where all the assets are held, what debts are outstanding etc etc and start sorting it all out. They need to establish who should inherit what etc etc. A fairly straightforward one can take a few months, it can take up to maybe 2 years if it is complicated. There may be property abroad or relations abroad to trace or trusts that need sorting. You just don't know. Also it involves writing to all the various institutions involved with all the correct paperwork. It can take a long time even if the administrators/executors are on the ball as banks/building socieities are not always quick off the mark.
You need to try and find out as best you can who is doing the probate. Is it the family or solicitors. Do you think whoever is doing it will be efficient and get it tied up quickly? You may also be able to get an idea whether the estate is likely to be simple with maybe a few bank accounts or whether there are hundreds of pots of money dotted around.
Things are unlikely to happen quickly, these things always seem to turn into a beaureacratic nightmare.
I think you need to decide how long you are prepared to wait (obviously taking into account what info you can get from the sellers etc) and then be prepared to look at other properties/walk away.
You can always start looking anyway and leave your offer on the table for now. If it something else comes along then you can withdraw.
You can let the family know that you have a deadline of however many months if you feel that it is reasonable for them to sort it out in the timeframe and you feel that they will be motivated to meet this deadline.
Hope this helps.
df

bxboards

My current property was unregistered (I bought it at auction) and was made up of a few purchases over the years.

My solicitor did manage to do it OK, but I think it was about 3 months after I had exchanged.

I don't think this is a dealbreaker in its own right - if the property has been lived in for years, or held within the same family it may well not be as it simply will not have been bought or sold recently, so will not have passed via the land registry.

Your solicitor should be able to advise you whether to continue, but the unregistered part isn't - on its own - an unusual or insurmountable problem.

dremario

Thank you all for your replies. They have really helped me clarify the situation and the various terms.

I have managed to establish that the seller’s solicitors have already obtained the grant of probate on behalf of the seller, which is one of the problems sorted.

However, the bigger problem of finding the missing title deeds remains.

I spoke to the estate agent and they are telling me that even if the vendors could not locate the title deeds there is another option. The vendors can swear a declaration in front of solicitors that they could not find the deeds and the solicitors send the declaration to the Land registry. Once the property is registered this way I could go ahead with the purchase.

Somehow I suspect that this option the estate agent is offering has hidden pitfalls as it is in their interest to complete the purchase asap. What do you think?