What happened to rewarding hard workers- Autumn Statement

kabayiri

We should ditch the term "hard working". Seriously, we should.

It became the popular political buzzword to describe a notional group of people. An idea that there is this mass collective of the populace who are doing their bit for the country. A sort of dunkirk spirit.

That's what politicians do. They try and tap into some notional concept so they can keep feeding us pipe dreams.

There are different measures needed for people to achieve their job aims. For some people on projects, effort ebbs and flows depending on deadlines. It's very different for security guards. Both have a place.

wotsthat

kabayiri wrote: »

We should ditch the term "hard working". Seriously, we should.

It became the popular political buzzword to describe a notional group of people. An idea that there is this mass collective of the populace who are doing their bit for the country. A sort of dunkirk spirit.

What's wrong with politicians trying to 'deliver' 'affordable' homes to 'hard working' families? Sounds like the 'right thing to do'.

This language is used to obscure the simple fact that there is no differentiation between the deserving and undeserving.

N1AK

Scrootum wrote: »

Yes
I believe of infinately greater value than some some Quangocrat on or civil servant on £125k pa for producing nothing.

In about 30 minutes yesterday I reduced the data admin for one of our teams by about 3 hours a day. We've shifted some more work to the team from an analyst and his time is now being used to trial business process changes and their effect on production performance. A 0.1% improvement in the area he is looking at is worth £300,000 in revenue pa to the business and we'll certainly get a better improvement than that.

I'm not paid £125k alas, nor am I employed by the government, but I have a healthy appreciation for the value that good senior staff can provide. The fact that nothing you do is apparently worth very much to anyone is not, in itself, proof that nothing anyone else does is of high value

N1AK

flitter wrote: »

The thing you need to remember about averages is that very high and very low figures distort the outcome, so although most people may be earning minimum wage, people like you who earn £75k a year are pulling the average figure up, meaning that the majority of the workforce may end up earning under the 'national average'.

The majority do earn less than the mean wage, they earn the median wage. I think the difference currently is that the mean is around £30k and the median is around £20k which is a pretty huge difference.

Fella

This Government couldn't care less about people earning £75K+ for the simple reason that it expects to get their votes regardless.

That's why it's falling over itself to try to get the votes of the swing voters at the low-to-middle end of income. And why no politician of any colour can currently manage a whole sentence without including "hard-pressed families" somewhere in it.

N1AK

Fella wrote: »

This Government couldn't care less about people earning £75K+ for the simple reason that it expects to get their votes regardless.

Pretty much true, although they have done the odd thing to keep the wealthy onside. Dropping the top rate of tax made financial sense, imo, but more importantly it was a carrot to the wealthy.

gadgetmind

Scrootum wrote: »

Be intersted to know what may of these people on 75k salaries do that is of any use to anyone.

They design aeroplanes, perform surgery, create new technology, invent new medicines, write great literature, lead corporations, sing like angels, and generally do all of those things that others can't do.

dtsazza

flitter wrote: »

Tell me how many hours a week do you work for your £75k?

I don't think that's a relevant question, for the reason that lisyloo stated:

lisyloo wrote: »

If everyone was able to do the £75k job then it wouldn't be £75K !!!!!

Pay levels are nothing to do with effort - they are related to the scarcity of the skill.

It's not about how many hours you put in, or how much effort this entails. What matters is how valuable the output of your work is (in particular, how much the person that's paying your wage values it).

In general, whether you can produce a given output in 1 hour or in 60 hours, you can expect the same (total) pay in return.


So I don't know if it fits in with what you were trying to find out, but a better question might be what do you give your employer/customers/other "payer", such that they are happier with that, than they are with having £75k?

gadgetmind

dtsazza wrote: »

In general, whether you can produce a given output in 1 hour or in 60 hours, you can expect the same (total) pay in return.

It's not just that.

The people I pay big money to are those who can do in one hour what most others couldn't so much as hope to achieve in a lifetime. Not only can't this latter group do this task, they can't even get their heads into the foothills because they haven't trained their brains to handle this degree of abstraction.

How many hours you work counts for little if you don't do anything that requires any skill as unskilled people aren't in short supply, in fact we have billions of them.

What we lack is smart people, who can do smart things, and they will always command a pay premium that dwarfs what the unskilled can earn.

Is this unfair?

No, not really, as we all have the same mass of grey matter between our ears.

kabayiri

Some people are just smart at convincing others that they are worth more money