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UKPC Parking Charge
Lubo_2
Posts: 7 Forumite
I would like some help dealing with a NTK appeal please.
The PCN was because my vehicle was recorded on private property in breach of the terms and conditions i.e. Stopped in a Prohibited area. The PCN looks ok apart from it mentions that the driver had a parking charge issued at the time when this was not the case, but I guess this is just a general format.
Circumstances. The driver stopped in a Prohibited area. There was no signs on entry detailing this was the case. After looking there are 2 signs in the area which look fine. There is still no entry sign although this is a small area off of a main road at the side of a shopping complex and according to the BPA code it does not need to have one. Hence why they could be missed.
Intention. There was no intention to park on private land and this could have been stopped by moving to the other side of the road, rather than off to the side of it. The driver and passenger were clearly un-aware of the situation and only stopped for a max 5-20mins. The vehicle did not impede anything or cause any known problems and there was a driver in the vehicle at all times.
Below is the NTK appeal that I plan to send to the company:
Name
Address
Date very recently
Parking Charge Notice - Notice toKeeper
1. This letter is a formal challenge without prejudice, exceptas to costs, to the issue of your Parking Charge Notice - Notice to Keeper asset out in the current BPA Ltd AOS Code of Practice B.22
2. On ______ I was the registered keeper of a ____ vehicle registration number ___.
3. BeforeI decide how to deal with your Parking Charge Notice - Notice to Keeper, Ishould be grateful if you would first answer all the questions and deal withall the issues I have set out below. Once you have done so, I will be able to make an informed decision on how I deal with the matter.
4. I should be grateful for specific answers to all questionsraised. In this respect I remind you of the obligations set out in the currentPractice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct.
5. I dispute your claim for the reasons set out below. Pleasenote that although I dispute the whole basis of the parking charge, my mainconcern is its disproportionate and punitive level.
Your parking chargeamount claim.
6. Please explain on which of the following grounds your claimis based:
a. Damages for trespass
b. Damages for breach of contract
c. A contractual sum
7. I must also point out that you have mentionedthat the vehicle had stopped and not parked meaning it was there for a veryshort time. Surely as per B.18.5 youhave to give some grace to customers who might otherwise decide not to park thereonce signs have been read. Even if therewas no permission there must still be some period, since how can a decision bemade with no information to make one.
8. How long is your grace period and how long didthe driver actually stop? It is believedthis should also have been sent on the initial document as per BPA AOS Code ofPractice 9.(2).(a), period of parking.
Your loss
9. If it is your case that a trespass was committed or that acontract was breached such that your claim is one for damages; please give me afull breakdown of the actual losses which evidences that this parking charge isa true reflection of the damages caused solely by the alleged parkingcontravention.
Your status – the creditor.
10. Your Parking Charge Notice - Notice to Keeper simply mentionsUKPC. Please tell me who is the actual creditor making this £60/100 parkingcharge demand. I need to know exactly who is making the claim and in whatcapacity.
Ownership of premises.
11. Pleasetell me who owns the car park as I wish to send them a copy of this letter.
Contractual Authority (as required by BPALtd AOS CoP B.7)
12. Pleaseprovide me with a copy of the contract between your company and thelandowner/landholder that provides the necessary contractual written authorityfor the issue and enforcement of your Parking Charge Notice - Notice to Keeper.
Signage.
13. If it is your case that a contract has beenbreached or that a contractual sum is now due, please send me photographs ofthe signs that you display and upon which you seek to evidence that a lawfuland legally enforceable contract was entered into. Please ensure that thephotographs show the terms and conditions in a clear and legible manner. Pleaseprovide me with a diagram showing the locations and layout of those signs at thecar park. Alsoprovide evidence that the wording is in plain and intelligible language and insufficiently large print as to be legible to a driver at the car park’s entrypoint.
14. You will also be aware that as per BPA AOS Code of Practice A.A8.2,that there is a requirement to have an entrance sign. Due to the charge taking place with noknowledge of stopping in a prohibited area, it is suggested that there must beno sign on entrance to the area. It is understood that there must be signssomewhere but the problem is they were not seen from the place the driveractually drove into the area and is said to have stopped. This could be for many reasons such thatthere were distractions or other vehicles stopping the view to see the signs. In all cases the driver had no intention tostop in an area that is not allowed nor enter into any contract with yourselvesat any time. There was also a driver available at all times should the vehicle have been required to move.
Summary
15. I look forward to receiving your acknowledgement within 14 days and as there are no ‘exceptionalcircumstances’ your comprehensive reply within 35 days (in accordance withthe BPA AOS Code of Practice B.22.8. I will then beable to make an informed decision as to how I deal with your Parking ChargeNotice – Notice to Keeper.
16. If you reject this challenge or fail to addressthe issues that have been raised then, in accordance with the BPA AOS Code of Practice 22.12, please ensure that you enclose all the requiredinformation (including the necessary ‘POPLA code’) so that I may immediatelyrefer the matter for their decision.
17. If you fail to follow any of the proceduresoutlined in the BPA AOS Code of Practice or your legal requirements under the Protection of Freedoms Act, or the requirements of the Practice Direction onPre-Action Conduct then I will make a formal complaint to the DVLA Data Sharing Policy Group, D16.
Please Note: Unless you have specifically requested itand received my express permission, you do not have my authority to disclose orrefer this letter or any other communication from me to any other persons or organisations.
Is there anything I should be omitting or adding?
Is this the sort of thing I should be sending to POPLA and not the parking company because I see that people are suggesting a small effort and they never reply with anything useful anyway?
The PCN was because my vehicle was recorded on private property in breach of the terms and conditions i.e. Stopped in a Prohibited area. The PCN looks ok apart from it mentions that the driver had a parking charge issued at the time when this was not the case, but I guess this is just a general format.
Circumstances. The driver stopped in a Prohibited area. There was no signs on entry detailing this was the case. After looking there are 2 signs in the area which look fine. There is still no entry sign although this is a small area off of a main road at the side of a shopping complex and according to the BPA code it does not need to have one. Hence why they could be missed.
Intention. There was no intention to park on private land and this could have been stopped by moving to the other side of the road, rather than off to the side of it. The driver and passenger were clearly un-aware of the situation and only stopped for a max 5-20mins. The vehicle did not impede anything or cause any known problems and there was a driver in the vehicle at all times.
Below is the NTK appeal that I plan to send to the company:
Name
Address
Date very recently
Parking Charge Notice - Notice toKeeper
1. This letter is a formal challenge without prejudice, exceptas to costs, to the issue of your Parking Charge Notice - Notice to Keeper asset out in the current BPA Ltd AOS Code of Practice B.22
2. On ______ I was the registered keeper of a ____ vehicle registration number ___.
3. BeforeI decide how to deal with your Parking Charge Notice - Notice to Keeper, Ishould be grateful if you would first answer all the questions and deal withall the issues I have set out below. Once you have done so, I will be able to make an informed decision on how I deal with the matter.
4. I should be grateful for specific answers to all questionsraised. In this respect I remind you of the obligations set out in the currentPractice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct.
5. I dispute your claim for the reasons set out below. Pleasenote that although I dispute the whole basis of the parking charge, my mainconcern is its disproportionate and punitive level.
Your parking chargeamount claim.
6. Please explain on which of the following grounds your claimis based:
a. Damages for trespass
b. Damages for breach of contract
c. A contractual sum
7. I must also point out that you have mentionedthat the vehicle had stopped and not parked meaning it was there for a veryshort time. Surely as per B.18.5 youhave to give some grace to customers who might otherwise decide not to park thereonce signs have been read. Even if therewas no permission there must still be some period, since how can a decision bemade with no information to make one.
8. How long is your grace period and how long didthe driver actually stop? It is believedthis should also have been sent on the initial document as per BPA AOS Code ofPractice 9.(2).(a), period of parking.
Your loss
9. If it is your case that a trespass was committed or that acontract was breached such that your claim is one for damages; please give me afull breakdown of the actual losses which evidences that this parking charge isa true reflection of the damages caused solely by the alleged parkingcontravention.
Your status – the creditor.
10. Your Parking Charge Notice - Notice to Keeper simply mentionsUKPC. Please tell me who is the actual creditor making this £60/100 parkingcharge demand. I need to know exactly who is making the claim and in whatcapacity.
Ownership of premises.
11. Pleasetell me who owns the car park as I wish to send them a copy of this letter.
Contractual Authority (as required by BPALtd AOS CoP B.7)
12. Pleaseprovide me with a copy of the contract between your company and thelandowner/landholder that provides the necessary contractual written authorityfor the issue and enforcement of your Parking Charge Notice - Notice to Keeper.
Signage.
13. If it is your case that a contract has beenbreached or that a contractual sum is now due, please send me photographs ofthe signs that you display and upon which you seek to evidence that a lawfuland legally enforceable contract was entered into. Please ensure that thephotographs show the terms and conditions in a clear and legible manner. Pleaseprovide me with a diagram showing the locations and layout of those signs at thecar park. Alsoprovide evidence that the wording is in plain and intelligible language and insufficiently large print as to be legible to a driver at the car park’s entrypoint.
14. You will also be aware that as per BPA AOS Code of Practice A.A8.2,that there is a requirement to have an entrance sign. Due to the charge taking place with noknowledge of stopping in a prohibited area, it is suggested that there must beno sign on entrance to the area. It is understood that there must be signssomewhere but the problem is they were not seen from the place the driveractually drove into the area and is said to have stopped. This could be for many reasons such thatthere were distractions or other vehicles stopping the view to see the signs. In all cases the driver had no intention tostop in an area that is not allowed nor enter into any contract with yourselvesat any time. There was also a driver available at all times should the vehicle have been required to move.
Summary
15. I look forward to receiving your acknowledgement within 14 days and as there are no ‘exceptionalcircumstances’ your comprehensive reply within 35 days (in accordance withthe BPA AOS Code of Practice B.22.8. I will then beable to make an informed decision as to how I deal with your Parking ChargeNotice – Notice to Keeper.
16. If you reject this challenge or fail to addressthe issues that have been raised then, in accordance with the BPA AOS Code of Practice 22.12, please ensure that you enclose all the requiredinformation (including the necessary ‘POPLA code’) so that I may immediatelyrefer the matter for their decision.
17. If you fail to follow any of the proceduresoutlined in the BPA AOS Code of Practice or your legal requirements under the Protection of Freedoms Act, or the requirements of the Practice Direction onPre-Action Conduct then I will make a formal complaint to the DVLA Data Sharing Policy Group, D16.
Please Note: Unless you have specifically requested itand received my express permission, you do not have my authority to disclose orrefer this letter or any other communication from me to any other persons or organisations.
Is there anything I should be omitting or adding?
Is this the sort of thing I should be sending to POPLA and not the parking company because I see that people are suggesting a small effort and they never reply with anything useful anyway?
0
Comments
-
Far too detailed for an initial appeal to an NtK. Keep your powder dry for POPLA and just send a soft appeal.
But before we go any further can you answer the following please?
Where was this? (County)
When was the "offence"?
When did the NtK arrive?0 -
Circumstances. The driver stopped in a Prohibited area. There was no signs on entry detailing this was the case. After looking there are 2 signs in the area which look fine. There is still no entry sign although this is a small area off of a main road at the side of a shopping complex and according to the BPA code it does not need to have one. Hence why they could be missed.
Don't know where you got that idea from the BPA code of practice clearly states throughout that there MUST be entrance signs - and very few situations where there can't be.
DO NOT SEND THAT LETTER TO UKPC - IT IS NOT AN APPEAL WHICH YOU FOUND ON ANOTHER SITE - SEE THIS THREAD FOR THE RESPONSE YOU WILL RECEIVE.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4817923
******************************************************
Answer BOD1467's questions first before further advice.0 -
8 days after the charge found.Far too detailed for an initial appeal to an NtK. Keep your powder dry for POPLA and just send a soft appeal.
But before we go any further can you answer the following please?
Where was this? (County) England, Warwickshire.
When was the "offence"? Nov 13.
When did the NtK arrive?
I am within all timescales as are the company.0 -
4consumerrights wrote: »Don't know where you got that idea from the BPA code of practice clearly states throughout that there MUST be entrance signs - and very few situations where there can't be.
DO NOT SEND THAT LETTER TO UKPC - IT IS NOT AN APPEAL WHICH YOU FOUND ON ANOTHER SITE - SEE THIS THREAD FOR THE RESPONSE YOU WILL RECEIVE.
******************************************************
Please see:
BRITISH PARKING ASSOCIATION CODE OF PRACTICE
APPENDIX B
ENTRANCE SIGNS
A standard form of entrance sign must be placed at the entrance to the parking area.
There may be reasons why this is impractical:
• when there is no clearly defined car park entrance
• when the car park is very small
• at forecourts in front of shops and petrol filling stations
• at parking areas where general parking is not permitted.
If you think there are other circumstances where it is impractical.
The only problem I have is that this was a Prohibited area, not a parking area.0 -
If there WAS a windscreen ticket then the PPC are waaaay too early with their NtK. Which means there was NOT a windscreen ticket.
At least that's how I read it. Why not give us specific dates?0 -
-The only problem I have is that this was a Prohibited area, not a parking area.
Who deemed it prohibited? UKPC make up all the terms and conditions for their managed sites - if you read the thread I gave you above all the way through- this explains how they make their contracts.
-There is still no entry sign although this is a small area off of a main road at the side of a shopping complex
Are you sure this was private land?
Or was this a loading/unloading bay for the retailers?
Am I right in assuming from your answers and OP that there was no windscreen ticket then?
If ANPR is used then it is MANDATORY that this information is given at the site's entrance. This also needs planning consent from the council and should include what the information is used for.
*****************************************************
We need to know the dates of parking and if windscreen notice to driver before you can write:
Write to UKPC the following:
PCN .........................
Reg No.......................
Dear Sir,
The registered keeper of the above vehicle has confirms receipt of the notice to keeper for the parking charge of ....................
Insert this part if relevant:
Firstly the keeper would like to point out that your notice to keeper is not compliant as there was no windscreen notice to driver provided on the day of the alleged parking breach.
The keeper denies all liability to pay this charge as the driver on the day did not see any signage informing that the site was managed. Therefore no conract was made between the driver and UKPC.
The keeper further contends that the charge is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss for any alleged breach regardless of whether a contract was made.
In view of the above, please cancel the aforesaid parking charge or supply me with a POPLA code for the next stage of the appeals process where further challenges regarding liability will be made.
Yours faithfully
PRINT NAME
REGISTERED KEEPER.
0 -
If there WAS a windscreen ticket then the PPC are waaaay too early with their NtK. Which means there was NOT a windscreen ticket.
At least that's how I read it. Why not give us specific dates?
I am not sure at this time what I can put on and not? The less detail about dates I thought the better as long as I was within the timescales? I have read that the company personnel monitor the sites etc.
If I have not been clear or it would be better to supply more information without any comeback, then please let me know. Thanks.0 -
You can tell us the date of parking.
If there was a windscreen notice to driver or not.
The Newbie thread explains the reasons and timescales applicable:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/48358190 -
4consumerrights wrote: »You can tell us the date of parking.
If there was a windscreen notice to driver or not.
The Newbie thread explains the reasons and timescales applicable:
Ok, Thanks,
20 Nov
No Windscreen Notice, although as mentioned above in the first statement/paragraph, it does state that it was on the initial NTK slip saying they did give me one.0
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