Use Section 75 for VAT refund?

Atidi

mikrt wrote: »

I can see that, but my argument would have been (If I was given the opportunity), is that goods were not as described, as, he stated that he would supply a VAT invoice.

Tenuous I agree, but I was hoping common sense would prevail.

I'm not surprised they closed the claim against you.

If the seller was VAT registered, then they were not a private seller, so you could have returned the items purchased under DSR for a refund if that what you wanted.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/gds/Distance-Selling-Regulations-And-eBay-/10000000000140381/g.html

(Valid claims under SNAD would usually have to be returned if you wanted a refund)

Atidi

mikrt wrote: »

Sorry, but I've read that article/page thououghly, and it only relates to VAT registered customers.

Please read it again.

If you are a retailer, you do not need to issue a VAT invoice or receipt unless your customer asks for one.

Nothing there about being a VAT registered customer

mikrt wrote: »

And that link only relates to complaints about hmrc, which I don't have. Yet.

Yes you do, for giving you incorrect advice

mikrt

Atidi, It indeed states if you are a retailer, you do not need to issue a VAT invoice or receipt unless your customer asks for one.

The important woed there being need. Not obliged.

The very next paragraph states As a VAT-registered supplier, you may be liable to a fine if you do not issue a VAT invoice for a supply you have made when asked to do so by a VAT-registered customer.

Atidi

mikrt wrote: »

Atidi, It indeed states if you are a retailer, you do not need to issue a VAT invoice or receipt unless your customer asks for one.

The important woed there being need. Not obliged.

The very next paragraph states As a VAT-registered supplier, you may be liable to a fine if you do not issue a VAT invoice for a supply you have made when asked to do so by a VAT-registered customer.

You got it! The important word is "need"

need

niːd/
verb
verb: need; 3rd person present: needs; past tense: needed; past participle: needed; gerund or present participle: needing; modal verb: need

1. require (something) because it is essential or very important rather than just desirable.
2. expressing necessity or obligation.
3. archaic be necessary

mikrt

Thanks Atidi,

That's a great help.

But I hope you don't mind if I don't complain to HMRC on that argument.

JasonLVC

Quote "if you are a retailer, you do not need to issue a VAT invoice or receipt unless your customer asks for one."

The other important word in this setnence is "Unless".

So, retailer does not NEED to provide a receipt UNLESS the customer demands one, then the retailer has to produce one.

The legal basis is under Regulation 13 of the VAT Regulations 1995 (Statutory Instrument 1995/2518), which are issued under power of Para 2 of Schedule 11 of the VAT Act 1994.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1994/23/schedule/11

Suggest OP reminds the seller of their legal obligations. If seller is VAT registeed then they are obliged to provide their VAT number upon request. OP can check the validity of a VAT number here :-

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/vies/

Select GB and enter the VAT number, ignore the other two boxes below, if valid it will give name/address of the business.

If the seller has said they are VAT registered but are not, it is called an "unauthorised VAT invoice" and the "VAT" charged creates a Crown Debt, in effect, the "VAT" is no longer VAT but is still due to the Treasury as it was collected under the auspices of VAT, so trader can get into a bit of trouble over this.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/dmbmanual/dmbm450130.htm

If HMRC are made aware, they will pursue the seller for this VAT - that doesn't help the OP get his VAT back but might provide enough ammunition to scare the seller into giving the OP back what is due.

Ebay, still like the wild west out there I see.

mikrt

Thanks Jason,

I already checked his VAT credentials, and he is indeed registered.

I really believe I've come to the end of the line communicating with him directly. I realise now that the money won't be seen again.

As earlier posted, have spoken to HMRC "Human Intelligence", so hopefully they'll make some difficulty for him.

I've bought quite a few things off eBay for my new build house and this is the first instance of this kind. Hopefully there won't be another, but there seems nothing eBay or Paypal are prepared to do is to stop it.

chattychappy

Nice to see posters taking the trouble to dig out the relevant law.

My recent experience of HMRC is that they are overwhelmed and just focus on major risks. 20 years ago they were pretty hot when people reported traders for not following rules. I once reported Argos when they told me I couldn't have a VAT invoice. Within days the VAT office had spoken to them and the branch manager was on the phone to me. No fraud of course, just staff ignorance. Ditto when I had trouble with other traders. My UK businesses used to get inspected at least every 5 years, that has all stopped.

With internet trading I've found that some traders provide proper VAT invoices and some claim they can/will and then never do. I just don't spend large sums with a trader until I know they will do things properly. Where I don't get a proper VAT invoice, I just write it off. Does annoy me though - my business has quite complex compliance issues. I do it properly and I don't like to see others get away with it.

I know nothing of Paypal's appeals process. But I'm sympathetic to the OP's position: if he bought something on the basis of the promise of a VAT invoice being provided, then it seems fair that a dispute should succeed if the invoice wasn't provided.

Any genuine VAT registered trader can provide an invoice (or copy invoice) if it wishes to. Something wrong if they say they can't.