Baptism Certificate

dizsiebubba

We had our son baptized recently and I am Cof E but my OH is Catholic althoughwe always go to Catholic mass. There had to be a lead parent who was catholic and the other parent could make the promises to god as long as they had been baptized under 'some other christian denomination'

Why does he want a catholic school if it isn't in his beliefs? Bit muggy really, go to a non-church school & hopefully in RE thechild will learn the difference in the christian groups

TeamLowe

Schools do not have to 'reserve' places for non religious children but they can not deny a child a place based on their religion if there are places available.

If they have 30 pupils in a year and receive 50 applications, then the children are put in the relevant category in the oversubscription criteria, of which 'Baptised' would come before 'not baptised'. If 30 children applying are baptised then they all get a place and those not baptized do not. If there's only 10 baptised children applying then 20 non baptised will get a place

So whilst schools do take children who aren't religious there's no reserved places or quotas they have to fill, it just depends on the number of Catholics in the cohort that year, which can vary greatly. Last year my area even had a Catholic school that was so popular there wasn't enough places for all the Catholic children and another that had places left over once everyone had been allocated

tabby_cats_mum

keep_flyin wrote: »

Before a Catholic Church will baptize his child your friend will need to be baptized himself, hence why the priest is taking an interest in the father. The priest will not be OK with just baptizing the child.

If your friend goes to another Christian denomination and has the child baptized he will not be a Catholic, he will be whichever denomination baptizes him.

Speaking as a Catholic involved in the church and school admissions this will be true for most Catholic churches. (I say most as some priests will be more liberal). Our priest will not baptise a child unless the parent is a baptised Catholic. He will baptise the parent as long as they have attended church for a few months and then he will baptise the child. The parent will therefore have to be received into the catholic church and jump through whatever hoops that will entail.

Obviously this stops parents getting their child baptised just to get into school. You'd be amazed how many non-catholic parents are never seen again once all this is explained to them.

On the admission to school we look at baptism/christening certificates. A baptised catholic child will always take priority followed by a christian child with a baptisimal certificate. Without proof you are a christian you wouldn't get in our local catholic school (as it's over subscribed). This criteria is followed by all schools/churches in the diocese.

I'm just giving a statement of facts to be helpful so whilst I know lots of people won't agree with this selection procedure it's just the way it, please don't flame me down!

tabby_cats_mum

TeamLowe wrote: »

Schools do not have to 'reserve' places for non religious children but they can not deny a child a place based on their religion if there are places available.

If they have 30 pupils in a year and receive 50 applications, then the children are put in the relevant category in the oversubscription criteria, of which 'Baptised' would come before 'not baptised'. If 30 children applying are baptised then they all get a place and those not baptized do not. If there's only 10 baptised children applying then 20 non baptised will get a place

So whilst schools do take children who aren't religious there's no reserved places or quotas they have to fill, it just depends on the number of Catholics in the cohort that year, which can vary greatly. Last year my area even had a Catholic school that was so popular there wasn't enough places for all the Catholic children and another that had places left over once everyone had been allocated

Sums it up perfectly.

jackyann

Please can I add that in some areas there are quotas! There may not be in your area (I do think the set-up you describe is quite prevalent) but I have known them, and it really does depend on the exact wording of the agreement with the Education Authority (and I imagine is even more complicated now with Academies & Free schools & Uncle Tom Cobley & all)
So I still think that contacting the individual school is the best route.

I'm afraid that also have a suspicion that OP's friend has just heard from someone that Catholic schools are "good" with no real justification, that he knows someone who'll give the child a "christian" baptism certificate without much trouble and hopes that will do. I rather feel he's entering a minefield.

Savvy_Sue

tabby_cats_mum wrote: »

A baptised catholic child will always take priority followed by a christian child with a baptisimal certificate.

I'd say it depends on the school's admission criteria. When we moved DS1 to a Catholic Junior School, 'the unbaptised' were in a category all of their own at the very bottom of the list, below children not attending church at all or of other faiths.

I explained that in my tradition, baptism has to wait until the person can make their own response, but he did have a 'Certificate' to prove we'd had a service of thanksgiving (for his birth), dedication (of ourselves as Christian parents) and naming for him. The obviously fairly open minded head was fine about that, and I noticed that the criteria had changed slightly by the following year so that 'the unbaptised' were no longer at the bottom of the list.

jackyann wrote: »

Please can I add that in some areas there are quotas!

<snip>

So I still think that contacting the individual school is the best route.

Absolutely. The CofE secondary school the boys attended had a quota of 4 'other faith' pupils each year, ie non Christian but still had to be practising some faith or another. Personally I wouldn't have wanted mine to have been one of the 4 'odd ones out'!

squashy

I also deal with admissions in a Catholic school. If we get a baptism cert and we don't know of the church a simple google will tell us if it is Catholic, C of E, Pentocostal or whatever else. I'm afraid only a Catholic baptism certificate will cut the mustard in terms of admissions priorities. In my school, if we have any spaces left after all catholic children have been allocated, then they would go to any non-catholic LAC children, followed by the nearest geographically of the non-catholic bunch!

seven-day-weekend

The school my husband taught at (and my son attended) is a CofE Secondary School.

It has 165 place intake each year and is always vastly over-subscribed.

Admission Criteria is as follows: (My son's place was granted under Category .

ADMISSIONS CRITERIA 2014
Governors will offer 165 places each academic year.
Any child with a Statement of Special Educational Need, for whom S.Peter’s Collegiate School is named in the schedule as the most appropriate school to meet those needs, takes priority and will automatically receive a place.
This will affect the number of places available to non-statemented children.

If more than 165 applications are received, places will be offered in accordance with the following categories.

CATEGORY A: FOUNDATION PLACES
Criterion: Up to 95 places will be offered to children of practising Church of England families.

Written confirmed evidence of the family’s commitment to its place of worship and clergy reference, will be required at the time of application.

CATEGORY B: GOVERNORS’ PLACES
Criterion: Up to 30 places will be offered to children of practising Christian families of a recognised denomination other than the Church of England.
Written confirmed evidence of the family’s commitment to its place of worship and faith leader’s reference, will be required at the time of application.

CATEGORY C: FAITH COMMUNITY PLACES
Criterion: Up to 25 places will be offered to children of families who are actively involved in the worshipping life and work of any recognised faith community.
Written confirmed evidence of the family’s commitment to their place of worship and faith leader’s reference, will be required at the time of application

CATEGORY PASTORAL PLACES
Criterion: Up to 15 places will be offered to children of families/carers of any recognised faith community who must provide evidence, on/with the Supporting Evidence Form, of particular educational, social or medical needs which can be met especially well within the caring Christian environment of S.Peter’s
School.

Applicants must provide evidence of the help currently being received from the Church of England, other recognised faith communities, or other appropriate support groups in meeting those needs. Written confirmed evidence of the family’s commitment to its place of worship and the support they receive and faith leader’s reference will be
required at the time of application.

CATEGORY E: OTHER PLACES
If any of the above categories is undersubscribed, the Governors will reconsider applications not initially allocated a place. Consideration will be given in the first instance to those applications submitted under Category A [Foundation
Places] and then those submitted under Category B [Governors’ Places].
[/I]

Hope this helps.

MamaMoo_2

My son is a catholic, and joined the local Catholic primary school's nursery in September.
He was baptised in June along with his brother, and the certificate... Well, the priest did it on his computer. It wasn't fancy and I think my 11 year old brother could have knocked up something more official looking. However my baptism certificate from the same church was very fancy, almost like a wedding certificate. There's no set design template, however as has been said, a christening certificate from a non Catholic Church will have the church's name on it, which will be a giveaway.
Also, again, the word "father" preceding the officiator's name will usually make it obvious that it's catholic.
Also, IIRC, only Catholics are baptised, Christians are Christened?

Can you have a look at that schools figures for application vs intake?
There's a page on my local council's page that shows how many people applied and how many were admitted. At my son's school, application figures are quite low and usually there're few/no pupils turned away.

His school's criteria, as they are not LEA funded, is to provide places to baptised Catholics first, then children in care and so on. There is no "quota" for non-baptised children.

At my son's school, around 30% are non catholic. My next door neighbour's son goes to this school too, and has been christened into CofE.
He has been told by the local priest, upon expressing that he wants to be catholic, that he is more than welcome to be baptised. The religion of his parents is irrelevant (and neither of them are catholic anyway), however they do ask that at least one godparent is catholic.
Both of my boys have one catholic and one non-catholic god parent.
I am catholic, and my husband is not religious at all.
The priest didn't see this as a barrier to our son becoming catholic as the school will instil a lot of religious education too.

Overall, your best bet is to speak to your priest about converting your son, although perhaps think about having better reasons than "for a school place".

Torry_Quine

MamaMoo wrote: »

My son is a catholic, and joined the local Catholic primary school's nursery in September.
He was baptised in June along with his brother, and the certificate... Well, the priest did it on his computer. It wasn't fancy and I think my 11 year old brother could have knocked up something more official looking. However my baptism certificate from the same church was very fancy, almost like a wedding certificate. There's no set design template, however as has been said, a christening certificate from a non Catholic Church will have the church's name on it, which will be a giveaway.
Also, again, the word "father" preceding the officiator's name will usually make it obvious that it's catholic.
Also, IIRC, only Catholics are baptised, Christians are Christened?

Can you have a look at that schools figures for application vs intake?
There's a page on my local council's page that shows how many people applied and how many were admitted. At my son's school, application figures are quite low and usually there're few/no pupils turned away.

His school's criteria, as they are not LEA funded, is to provide places to baptised Catholics first, then children in care and so on. There is no "quota" for non-baptised children.

At my son's school, around 30% are non catholic. My next door neighbour's son goes to this school too, and has been christened into CofE.
He has been told by the local priest, upon expressing that he wants to be catholic, that he is more than welcome to be baptised. The religion of his parents is irrelevant (and neither of them are catholic anyway), however they do ask that at least one godparent is catholic.
Both of my boys have one catholic and one non-catholic god parent.
I am catholic, and my husband is not religious at all.
The priest didn't see this as a barrier to our son becoming catholic as the school will instil a lot of religious education too.

Overall, your best bet is to speak to your priest about converting your son, although perhaps think about having better reasons than "for a school place".

For the umpteenth time Catholics are Christians!

Baptism and christening are just different words for the same thing though.