Total Parking Solutions - Lincoln County Hospital

gravymister

Hi, New here. Just looking for a bit of advice, I've read the newbie thread, but I only found it after I sent the POPLA appeal..

So I had a parking permit at Lincoln Hospital, parked in the same spot for about 5 weeks, one day the permit must have blown to the floor of passenger side off the dash when I closed the door or something.. Next day I have a windscreen fine. Should've ignored it (I hadn't read anything on here) but instead I appealed.. and failed. Hence I've submitted an appeal to POPLA, however having been on here, I've seen much stronger appeals than I sent, and I'm starting to doubt how good mine was, its only been 48 hours since I submitted it so I was thinking I could send some supporting evidence in the form of some of the template letters I've seen on here. Was wondering if anyone could give me some advice? I've copied and pasted, the original appeal and POPLA appeal below:


Initial email appeal:
To whom it may concern,

I wish to appeal the parking charge notice obtained at Lincoln County Hospital on 17/10/2013 for not displaying a valid permit. I am appealing for the reason that I was displaying a valid permit registered for my vehicle as I am a medical student at the hospital. The permit was clearly visible however had fallen from the dash onto the floor on the passengers side presumably when the door closed as a passenger exited the vehicle. Any more than a cursory glance could have seen this and any attempt to check my registration would reveal that I have a valid parking permit.

If you require any further evidence please feel free to contact me, else I will consider this matter closed.

Regards,

I recieved this response:
Dear Sir,

Thank you for your correspondence, the content of which has been noted. Total Parking Solutions Ltd do not dispute that the appellant was in possession of a valid permit; however, the terms of parking are clear that any permit must be displayed. A requirement that a valid permit be displayed includes a requirement that any information confirming its validity be made visible. This includes any dates, location or bay number indicating when, and where, the permit is valid, and also any marks which show the permit is an original, and not a copy.

The Terms and Conditions of parking at this location are clearly displayed at the entrance and throughout the site. The onus is with the driver to ensure that when parking on private property they do so in accordance with the Terms and Conditions. Your vehicle was logged by patrol officer as the vehicle was parked without displaying a valid parking permit which breaches the Terms and Conditions of this site.

Unfortunately after careful consideration your representation has again been rejected, as the vehicle was parked in contravention of the Conditions of Use. It follows therefore, that the PCN was correctly issued and the amount of £30.00 remains outstanding.

To avoid incurring further administration costs please arrange your remittance within 14 days from the date of this letter.

Please find attached a POPLA independent appeal form.

You now have a number of options;

1. Pay the parking charge at the prevailing price of £30.00 within 14 days. Please note after this time the parking charge notice will rise to £60.00.
2. 2. Make a POPLA- The Independent Appeals Service by completing the accompanying form. Please be advised that if you opt for the independent arbitration of your case, the Parking charge notice will be £60.00.
3. If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies due via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with court action against you.


Regards

PARKING CONTROL DEPARTMENT


This is my POPLA appeal, I also submitted a statement corroborating it from a colleague.

To Whom it may concern, I am a medical student who was placed at Lincoln County Hospital for 10 weeks between September and November, as a resident of the on site accommodation I was issued a parking permit for the duration of my stay. My ticket was issued as I was 'not displaying a valid permit'. This is incorrect. My permit had fallen from the dash to the passenger side floor. However was still clearly visible, the terms and conditions only state that the permit must be displayed, which it was, my car is not very large, and the permit was clearly still capable of being read from the floor of the vehicle. A colleague who I was with at the time of noticing the parking charge will testify to this. Total Parking Solutions don't question the fact that I have a permit and have stated so in my failed appeal email: "Total Parking Solutions Ltd do not dispute that the appellant was in possession of a valid permit". So the fact I had a permit registered to my vehicle and I had parked in the same location for the previous 5 weeks should negate the fact that my parking permit was not in its usual place, although still perfectly visible and within the terms and conditions. So I'm sure you can understand why I think this parking charge is both invalid and to be honest petty. Kind Regards


Any Advice would be greatly appreciated!

kirkbyinfurnesslad_2

Oh Gawd another AWFUl popla appea,, what a waste of time !!!

Why come asking for advice after writing that piece of rubbish.

That appeal will fail completely, you need to add it to it,

Read this: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4488337 then come back here when you understand what wins and why yours is a failure

Redx

afaik POPLA do not adjudicate based on mitigation and in over 12 months of operation not one mitigation appeal has won

so as per the last post, you need to wise up and appeal on points of law that win cases , as shown in the successful POPLA appeals in the sticky threads at the top of the forum

read post #6 here https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4835943 to see why

gravymister

kirkbyinfurnesslad wrote: »

Oh Gawd another AWFUl popla appea,, what a waste of time !!!

Why come asking for advice after writing that piece of rubbish.

That appeal will fail completely, you need to add it to it,

Read this: then come back here when you understand what wins and why yours is a failure

Yeah I realised what a mistake I'd made when I came on here, unfortunately shortly after submitting my appeal...!

I 've read a thread by custard pie on "popla evidence what to submit" (I can't link it because I'm new and it won't let me copy a link in). But that has a large amount of legal grounds in it.

Is copying/adjusting a large portion of that and submitting it as further evidence something that I could try.. Or is this a lost cause?

Coupon-mad

With that terrible 'appeal' you WILL LOSE at POPLA, there are no two ways about it.

Not only that, TPS NTK letters are flawed in their wording but I don't even think from what you have said, that you waited for the NTK either? And you've named the driver too.

Oh dear.

The best you can do is send an email to POPLA to say please could they register the fact you have lodged an appeal but hold your previous submission (code xxxxxxxxxx) in abeyance for a week, as part of your appeal was missed. By mistake you only sent one paragraph when you meant to send several points - and you will post your full appeal instead this week.

Then do a proper appeal added onto your initial paragraph post that, with a clear note on the front with the verification code and stating that this is your full appeal and the online submission was clicked through too quickly in error (pretend it was a glitch).

I thought the link 'how to win at POPLA' in my 'NEWBIES' sticky thread at the top of the forum was what you would have been looking at by now, have you missed that too so far? It includes Custard Pie's thread, and Guys Dad's thread, and loads of winning wording examples.

Umkomaas

Yes, definitely you can send further detail - and this time based on the right things. Have you had a date for your appeal to be dealt with? That will, in many respects, determine what time you have available to put the 'right' appeal together.

POPLA has had a major backlog of appeals over the past few months, but they are now getting on top of it and your approximate date might well be now an overestimate, so you need to factor in that they may assess your appeal in advance of this.

Do some reading of the POPLA Decisions sticky (start at the latest and work back, rather than from the top, where early decisions have proved to be inconsistent with latest thinking) as well as Coupon-mad's 'Newbies' sticky. These are the key points you need to be concentrating on.

Genuine Pre-Estimate of Losses (GPEOL)
Inadequate signage
No proprietary interest in the land
Lack of contract with the landowner to issue charges and to pursue these in their own right - up to and including court

Seek these aspects out in other appeals and assessment decisions and you will quickly see how to win at POPLA. Sorry to be harsh, but your appeal is an excellent example of how to lose at POPLA.

We can get you through this, but please post up a revised draft appeal for advice on any fine-tuning and how you should resubmit this to POPLA.

Don't lose sight of the likely timescale you have available.

Umkomaas

Jeez, I'm gonna have to learn to type faster :rotfl:.

OP - I was clearly typing this at the same time (only slower) as Coupon-mad. Read both posts together, if you think either conflict, go with C-m's - the foremost advisor on private parking tickets on here. In fact, she's as good as that SchoolRunMum on PePiPoo.

gravymister

Thanks so much guys, I'll do some more thorough reading and post on here with a draft to make sure its up to scratch. I've emailed POPLA to let them know I've not submitted all the evidence and will do so shortly. The expected date is January 18th, so a while away, but I'll get this done ASAP!

Umkomaas

gravymister wrote: »

Thanks so much guys, I'll do some more thorough reading and post on here with a draft to make sure its up to scratch. I've emailed POPLA to let them know I've not submitted all the evidence and will do so shortly. The expected date is January 18th, so a while away, but I'll get this done ASAP!

A bit of breathing space to get this right. We'll help you along the way, and we've no intention of losing our 100% success record at POPLA.

But please don't leave it too late. I gave this warning to another poster a few weeks ago, and guess what - he came on here yesterday saying he'd missed his deadline date, and what can he do now. Please don't do the same!

martmonk

Have you tried the Estates/Facilities Manager at the hospital?
They can have it cancelled.

Folkiedave

Another thing is that you can write to the hospital for a copy of their contract with the parking company.

They'll say it is commercially confident - but in fact it isn't and an appeal to the Information Commissioner will confirm that.

It will probably show that they do not have permission to take people to court - not having sufficient interest in the land.