PCN in a council carpark at night

Greenbay

I recently parked in a local council car park at night and received a PCN for parking outside of bay markings. On the evening it was outside the charging period of the site and there was no illumination in the car park. I didn't even notice the ticket on returning that night as it was pitch dark in the car park. I got photos (well mainly blackness) the following evening showing the darkness and that more cars had parked exactly as I had the following day. I wrote a letter appealing the PCN pointing out the no illumination problems (even though there are lamp post in place, not in operation to maybe save money) and that the following night other drivers parked as I had. I pointed out that the lack of illumination can be a reasonable cause of such confusion with drivers being unaware of the signs and markings.
This appeal was replied to quickly with a response of decline of appeal stated that it was the drivers responsibility to park in a council car park within the regulations in place. Then follows the the menace of pay up the reduced fee or face the higher fee. I have since revisited the car park at night and noticed that the lighting has been in operation now.
As far I am aware the issue of PCN is under contract law , as a breach of such a contract. The rejection of appeal letter seems to imply that drivers should be penalised for breaches of a contract that was presented to them in the dark. I am thinking that a further challenge is require for which I am stated that as the PCN is unjust will be at a charge to the council for my time and trouble of £25 and that any further correspondence or representation I have to make in response to the councils pursuit of this penalty will have a charge which I will claim against the council. I feel that if an "authority" is allowed to issue letters use intimidation and menaces as a tactic then a member of the public has the write to make similar costs against that authority.

dementedfeline

Greenbay, search for the pepipoo forums and post over there. They will need photo/scan of ALL pages of PCN and the reps you made and council answer in order to be able to help.

Coupon-mad

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As far I am aware the issue of PCN is under contract law , as a breach of such a contract.

Not if it's a real Penalty Charge Notice from a Council. A real PCN is issued for a contravention of an Order (Traffic Order or Parking Places Order).

You need to post pics of your PCN (both sides) and rejection letter and what you said in appeal, on pepipoo forum where most people win in the end:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

You are utterly wasting your time to try to charge the Council for your time; they will laugh and you will miss your chance to follow the formal appeals process and adjudication. (I hope you haven't been reading any Freeman of the Land rubbish?)! Simply get on pepipoo and learn, and wait for the Notice to Owner (formal appeal stage).

If this ticket was from a private firm then the appeal advice is different.

ESKIMO

PCN - Penalty Charge Notice

Let's simplify this shall we...

Look what's that here on my windscreen? Ohh it's only a 'Notice'.

This is Civil not Criminal. The Council can't do jack s**t! PCNs, Speeding (sorry no 'Traffic Congestion Safety') Cameras are merely revenue making tools for a local 'authority' or 'council'.

In the eyes of the law you are innocent until proven guilty. They must prove hurt, harm or loss and in which case the 'Local Authority/Council' is a corporation and how has or can a 'corporation' suffer/ed a 'loss'? It can't as it's a legal fiction.

A Notice is a Notice, is a NOTICE. It's NOT a CONTRACT. IT'S A NOTICE! The clue is in the name/title.

Coupon-mad

ESKIMO wrote: »

PCN - Penalty Charge Notice

Let's simplify this shall we...

Look what's that here on my windscreen? Ohh it's only a 'Notice'.

This is Civil not Criminal. The Council can't do jack s**t! PCNs, Speeding (sorry no 'Traffic Congestion Safety') Cameras are merely revenue making tools for a local 'authority' or 'council'.

In the eyes of the law you are innocent until proven guilty. They must prove hurt, harm or loss and in which case the 'Local Authority/Council' is a corporation and how has or can a 'corporation' suffer/ed a 'loss'? It can't as it's a legal fiction.

A Notice is a Notice, is a NOTICE. It's NOT a CONTRACT. IT'S A NOTICE! The clue is in the name/title.

What codswallop. Do you read strange 'Freeman of the Land' websites and believe the twaddle in them?

Stroma

What an awful response to this, this kind of rubbish is spouted as coupon said by freemen of the land groupies. It won't do any good when a bailiff is towing your vehicle away, they will just laugh in your face!

Greenbay

Coupon-mad wrote: »

What codswallop. Do you read strange 'Freeman of the Land' websites and believe the twaddle in them?

So local or national authorities can issue fines at will. They need no right other than a "policy" . Matters not. When a bully wants your dinner money you can go to a teacher, when the bully IS the teacher pay up or you could find yourself in detention and at the mercy of the psychopathic teacher.
Have paid and now will no longer support anything local.
The future is a jack boot, stamping on the face of humanity forever, accompanied by a piece of paper say that it is policy and legal.

Stroma

Of course it's up to you if you want to pay, but IMO you have just paid the bullies, so you admit your guilt to them, so the end of the matter. In your place I would have appealed, I had help from pepipoo and the council cancelled before it went to the adjudicators

Coupon-mad

Greenbay wrote: »

So local or national authorities can issue fines at will.

LOL! You are preaching to a poster (me) who posts as SchoolRunMum on pepipoo and is part of a regular group who get people off Council PCNs every single day!

If you had taken my advice - and that of dementedfeline, which you were given straight away - you'd have had a 90% chance of not paying the PCN as we win most cases on pepipoo forum; the success rate with Council PCN appeals is phenomenal.

Never mind. You've paid now so you can pretend I never told you how to get off the PCN and you can rant at the world to your heart's content. Next time, take it to pepipoo because you seem to have missed the fact that almost everyone gets a rejection after the first appeal to any Council & you were just at 'Round Two' of the fight. Most people win at Round two or Three but you never tried, you fell at the hurdle of the discount BRIBE.

Here is a poster who did try, and has just posted their outcome:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4771695

Could have been you.