Possible sanction at the Jobcentre.

SJI85

Hello everyone.

I appreciate this is long so will summarise it as best I can. There is further history in the spoiler if interested. I would really appreciate some clarification.

I was informed yesterday when signing on that I've been summoned to meet an advisor at the jobcentre due to some "anomalies" on my account. I've done nothing wrong, and feel they've jumped the gun, and this is explained below in the spoiler. All I've done is been 100 percent truthful with them. It's just I do a lot of voluntary work, have a zero hours contract (offered in the summer but didn't start till this week) and have also had three interviews in the last few months which have fallen on my sign on day. So this, to them, is suspicious.

What will likely happen is that I'll stick to my guns as I know I'm right and nothing more will come from it. However, if they do decide to recommend a sanction, how would this work?

I am currently on the Work Programme. My understanding is that the jobcentre cannot really recommend a sanction. It needs to go to my advisor at the work programme provider who will then decide whether or not to put it to a decision maker at the DWP. Is this correct?

Thank you for taking the time to read (and, hopefully, respond).

I have been signing on JSA since graduating from university. In the summer I got myself a zero hours graduate job (educational support worker). At the same time I moved house and changed jobcentres. When unable to make my first sign on appt at the new jobcentre, due to training for the job, I informed them and provided evidence.

Between then and this week I've been unable to make only two further sign on appointments, both because of job interviews.

This week I was offered a telephone interview and began my zero hours job. The phone interview originally clashed with my sign on appointment so I informed the jobcentre and told them to expect me in the afternoon instead. They were fine with this.

However, I was informed late the day before that the interview had been moved to even earlier in the morning so no longer clashed with my sign on appt. But I still didn't attend the appt at my usual time as I need a new sign on time anyway (my work pretty much clashes with the sign on appoitnment). So I just decided to explain this to them when I arrived, giving them the details of the hours worked and forms needed and thought this would be fine.

However, when I arrived the member of staff insisted I still needed proof of the interview, despite it not being relevant anymore. She struggled to grasp that an interview time can change. After discussing it with an advisor she has arranged an advisor appt for me. When questioned what these anomalies are her words were "you have now had three consecutive appointments you cannot make due to interviews, and now you're working" (this is incorrect, btw, as one interview was way back in September. It's only the last two appts I haven't been able to make due to an interview/work).

[Deleted User]

and the spoiler is?what?where?

SJI85

woodbine wrote: »

and the spoiler is?what?where?

At the end, after the thank you (where it says "Spoiler highlight below to view:". You need to drag your cursor and highlight it to see the text.

I thought it would just be a spoiler box that you could click and it would expand.

seven-day-weekend

:Spoiler:


I have been signing on JSA since graduating from university. In the summer I got myself a zero hours graduate job (educational support worker). At the same time I moved house and changed jobcentres. When unable to make my first sign on appt at the new jobcentre, due to training for the job, I informed them and provided evidence.

Between then and this week I've been unable to make only two further sign on appointments, both because of job interviews.

This week I was offered a telephone interview and began my zero hours job. The phone interview originally clashed with my sign on appointment so I informed the jobcentre and told them to expect me in the afternoon instead. They were fine with this.

However, I was informed late the day before that the interview had been moved to even earlier in the morning so no longer clashed with my sign on appt. But I still didn't attend the appt at my usual time as I need a new sign on time anyway (my work pretty much clashes with the sign on appoitnment). So I just decided to explain this to them when I arrived, giving them the details of the hours worked and forms needed and thought this would be fine.

However, when I arrived the member of staff insisted I still needed proof of the interview, despite it not being relevant anymore. She struggled to grasp that an interview time can change. After discussing it with an advisor she has arranged an advisor appt for me. When questioned what these anomalies are her words were "you have now had three consecutive appointments you cannot make due to interviews, and now you're working" (this is incorrect, btw, as one interview was way back in September. It's only the last two appts I haven't been able to make due to an interview/work).

FBaby

I was informed late the day before that the interview had been moved to even earlier in the morning so no longer clashed with my sign on appt. But I still didn't attend the appt at my usual time as I need a new sign on time anyway

This is where you went wrong. You could attend because of the phone interview, so are offered a new time and you didn't go. That's a justified sanctioned. The fact that you subsequently required another time is irrelevant. You should have gone to this appointment as you didn't have a reason for not attending it.

SJI85

FBaby wrote: »

This is where you went wrong. You could attend because of the phone interview, so are offered a new time and you didn't go. That's a justified sanctioned. The fact that you subsequently required another time is irrelevant. You should have gone to this appointment as you didn't have a reason for not attending it.

I did. That's what I'm saying. I couldn't attend due to paid work.

For example, the adviser appointment I was given was for 11:00 next Monday. However, I've been able to get this changed due to my work commitments from 11:30. If my paid work is therefore a good reason for not attending an adviser appointment, why isn't it a good reason for not attending a sign on appointment?


To explain in more detail, I needed to be at a university for 11AM ideally (although support didn't start until 11:30 AM). My JSA appointment slot was 10:15 to 11AM. Had I attended the appointment I could have potentially been late for work. As this work is supporting students with disabilities, who rely on the support (and the predictability of the support) AND it was my first session with the student, I did not want to risk being late.

I find it utterly absurd that I can face the prospect of getting sanctioned for not attending an appointment due to work, especially when I did attend the jobcentre only a a few hours later and declared this work to them.

I'm hoping a bit of common sense will come into play here.

Anyway, my question doesn't concern whether a sanction would be justified or not. What I do want to know is does my adviser at the Work Programme need to get involved? My understand is that only the Work Programme, not the jobcentre, can recommend a sanction.

Voyager2002

The issue is that you need to keep things simple in your explanations to officials, at the job centre and generally. In this case you needed to change your signing-on appointment because of a job interview, and they agreed. They expected that when you arrived for the revised appointment you would provide evidence of the job interview: however, when you turned up you gave a completely different explanation. The front-line staff do not have sufficient seniority to deal with this kind of thing; apply common sense and understand that your explanation is reasonable, and so the matter has been referred up the chain.

SJI85

Voyager2002 wrote: »

The issue is that you need to keep things simple in your explanations to officials, at the job centre and generally. In this case you needed to change your signing-on appointment because of a job interview, and they agreed. They expected that when you arrived for the revised appointment you would provide evidence of the job interview: however, when you turned up you gave a completely different explanation. The front-line staff do not have sufficient seniority to deal with this kind of thing; apply common sense and understand that your explanation is reasonable, and so the matter has been referred up the chain.

Thank you.

I do appreciate this likely will be the case and it's probably that, once I explain this to an adviser, it will be accepted.

Though I still resent the way the member of staff made me feel, and having my honesty and integrity questioned in that way. Though she lacks the seniority to comment on my situation, and accept it, she could have dealt with it better. But that's something I have to live with.

Though I would still like to clarify the situation of sanctions and what role the work programme provider plays, if any, in recommending a sanction.

SJI85

Just to give an update for anyone interested I attended the adviser appointment, but it seems they were completely unaware about problem from last week, which I was told was the reason for this appt. To them there was no issue with the interviews/alleged "anomolies" on my account.

Instead I seem to have been referred for intensive job searching, had my voluntary work forms scruitinsed (and criticised) and a new agreement drawn up. All seems a very odd thing to do to someone who already has a job, is clearly doing all he can to find a job (with plenty of interviews recently), and has a second offer of employment so will be signing off in a few weeks. It just further confirms my suspicions that the jobcentre don't know what they're doing.

ArtoDeeto

SJI85 wrote: »

I do a lot of voluntary work, have a zero hours contract. So this, to them, is suspicious. I am currently on the Work Programme.

Let's face it you have basically been getting Jobseekers Allowance Benefit Payments for at least TWO years because you cannot get a paid job. Are you expecting them to take lunch with you in the garden?

Morlock

ArtoDeeto wrote: »

Let's face it you have basically been getting Jobseekers Allowance Benefit Payments for at least TWO years because you cannot get a paid job.

How do you know it has been two years? A JSA claimant can be referred to the Work Programme after 12 weeks, but it usually 9 months for under 25s, and 12 months for over 25s.