Advice on cost to repair damp in house we are looking to buy. FTB’s

MD87_2

Hi all,
I know this is going to be very vague and not sure if anyone can help but I am looking for some advice on a house I am in the process of buying with my partner. We are both first time buyers, everything has been going smoothly until now – we have just received the homebuyers report back which has shown damp in the kitchen as a ‘3’ (urgent issue) but it is NOT a condition of the mortgage. We are both very worried about damp as we currently have it in the rented accommodation that we live in and hate it!! I could tell no visible signs of damp nor could we smell any when we have viewed the property. The vendors have told me they have never had any damp problems (I realise this would be in their interest to tell me such things!).

I called the surveyor directly and he said he can only do basic checks, but the damp is along 1 wall (with cupboards along the same wall which he cannot check behind) and outside the bathroom. He can’t tell me what kind of damp it is, but I believe their damp meters can’t check for ‘rising damp’ (if that exists as I know some people believe there is no such thing). We have paid a damp specialist that I found through the PCA website to go and look into the damp further this week, to tell us what the problem is and how much it will cost to repair.

I am now really worried as we both love the house, but do not have any more money to pay out for any more fees on top of the ones we already have to pay out for. But if we don’t go ahead with the purchase we will lose over £600 that we have paid in solicitor/mortgage fees already. I have also read on forums that I could be told that a lot more needs doing than is truly necessary but I will have no idea if what the damp specialists will tell me is true or not. The specialists we are using are registered with the PCA, I cannot find any reviews on their company but I do know that a number of local councils use them, I am hoping that’s a good sign!!

If they come back to us and suggest work that costs over £300 (I would say that is the most we could afford/borrow from family!) would it be acceptable to ask the vendors to pay towards it? I have heard of this in the past but am not sure how I go about doing this or if it is cheeky. They have accepted our offer which was about 6% below asking price anyway.

Thanks

sandsni

"Damp" meters measure conductivity rather than actual moisture content, so just because the meter readings are high doesn't mean there is an actual "damp" problem.


If there a no obvious signs, either visible or olfactory, then there's a good chance there isn't a major problem.


When you say there is a problem outside the bathroom, do you mean in the hallway or outside the building? And where are the cupboards with the problem? It's hardly unusual for there to be high readings around areas where condensation might get deposited such as the bathroom or kitchen, especially if the vendors haven't heated or ventilated the house as well as they should. You will know this from your experience of your rental property.


Is your "damp specialist" independent or are they attached to a "damp-proofing company"? If they are attached they will have a vested interest in finding a problem they can then charge you for fixing.

Foxy-Stoat_3

Damp in bathrooms is normally caused by the people who use it, not opening the window while showering/bathing, no forced ventilation etc etc, could be window issues.

Damp in the kitchen behind cupboards is probably no ventilation, years of neglect, not cleaning behind washing machine/dishwasher, assuming its the external wall so may be lack of insulation (cold bridging) so could be cheap to fix.

Even if it wasn't cheap, if this is the only issue then it wouldn't stop me from putting in an offer.

Check the DPC on the external wall and get some mould killer and monitor it.

Good luck

MD87_2

Thank you for your replies.

Sorry – by ‘outside the bathroom’ I meant inside the property, kind of a hallway. It’s probably worth mentioning that this is a terraced house built in the 1900s with the kitchen and bathroom both downstairs (kitchen leads on to bathroom which is at the rear of the property).
The surveyor said he cannot tell me if the problem was along the whole wall as he can’t check behind the kitchen cupboards. As you walk into the kitchen there is a section of wall which is bare before the cupboards start, then again on the same wall at the other end where the cupboards end, this is where he has told me there is damp.
The damp specialists I am using are independent, registered with the PCA.

If it helps, I have copied and pasted the below 2 sections from the survey:

E4 Main Walls
The walls which are approximately 225/230mm thick, are built of brick and
rendered masonry and are of solid construction. The walls are likely to contain a
slate damp-proof course.
Damp was found internally possibly caused by the lack of an effective damp-proof
course and further investigations are needed.
As this is urgent you should instruct a Property Care Association registered company surveyor to inspect all areas of the property for
damp and report to you before exchange of contracts.
The walls whilst in satisfactory structural condition are not precisely true and plumb
which is not uncommon or unusual in a property of this age and type. However,
some external areas need attention.
Localised repointing is needed where mortar joints have failed and eroded to stop
any further deterioration and decay.
The render is cracked/weathered in places and needs localised repair.
External ground levels should be lowered or maintained to a minimum of 150 mm
below the correct damp-proof course level to help prevent damp associated
problems.
Ventilation to the suspended timber floor is inadequate as there are not enough
vents and this can lead to damp and decay as condensation forms beneath the
floor. Sub-floor ventilation should be improved.
The subsoil in the area is of a shrinkable nature which can cause foundation
movement. The risk is increased if drainage is defective and when prolonged dry
spells of weather occur.
There is a tree close to the property which could affect the foundations,
underground drains and other services. Arrangements should be made for the tree
to be kept regularly pruned to prevent it from increasing in size. The neighbours
may need to be made aware of their responsibilities for tree maintenance.

F3 Walls and partitions
The property has mainly solid masonry internal walls.
We recorded damp meter readings in the kitchen possibly caused by the lack of an
effective damp-proof course and therefore, more detailed investigations are
necessary.
As this is urgent you should instruct a Property Care Association registered company surveyor to inspect all areas of the property for
damp and report to you before exchange of contracts.

If the damp specialists recommend some kind of expensive treatment that I am not prepared to pay for, would you recommend not using them and wait until I move in to try and ventilate the property better? The moer and more I read online, the more it seems that ‘damp specialists’ are salesmen who will worry me in to spending more than I need to, to put things right, but at the same time I don’t want to leave a problem and buy the house if it turns out costing me a whole lot more or becomes unsellable in the future.

Foxy-Stoat_3

Its a 100+ year old property so will need some repairs but I wouldn't dismiss the engineers report, thats what you pay for.

Reduce your offer based on your findings and see what the vendors say, they may be unaware or well aware of the issues....so they may be expecting a knock.

MD87_2

Hi all, looking for a bit of further advice if anyone can help!? The damp specialist has been in to the property today, I have just called him and he said he can only give me vague information at the moment (I should have the full report and details middle of next week) he agreed that there was no visible damp but there are 3 areas that he found:

- A part of the wall in the lounge where a chimney/fireplace used to be that was removed (before current owners lived there)
- The same wall in the kitchen that the surveyor mentioned
- A wall at the back of the kitchen (between the bathroom and kitchen) that the surveyor also mentioned, however he said this is likely to be caused by the flat roof in the bathroom and I should get someone to investigate that.

The specialist said to me that the plaster on the other damp areas would need removing, then a damp course injecting and then replacement waterproof re-plastering to be done. He has said he thinks it is about 3 days work and in the very worst case it would come to £2000, BUT that is worst case and I wont know full details until he has time to complete the full report - next week. I cannot afford anything close to that at all, for anyone who knows anything about damp (or at least more than I do!) - does this sound correct?!

Thanks

Foxy-Stoat_3

A plasterer would charge you £150-£200 a day plus maybe another bod at £100 a day. A bag of plaster is about £10, bag of Bonding slightly less...not idea how many bags you will need as dont know the area.

Damp coursing injecting is probably £700-£1000 depending on areas...you will want to dry out the area before re-plasting though. You could get the damp proofing done and save up for re-plastering and re-decorating later.

You will need to budget for repairs/decorations/upgrades when you run your house anyways...... maybe you can drop your offer a few thousand to easy the pain a little.

lessonlearned

Despite it's 3 rating on your report try not to panic and certainly don't rush to have the specialist damp proofers in. A costly damp injection course may be unnecessary.

Before you do anything get a builder to give the property the once over. The remedy might be relatively simple and inexpensive, however, if damp has been present for some time then injection treatments may not be sufficient, there may be damage to the sub floor timbers. A builder will check for this, the damp proof specialist may not.

Once the builder has given you their verdict you may then be able to go back to the vendor and renegotiate the asking price. Until then don't pay out any more money.

However, from the extract you have quoted from the surveyor's report it would seem that some of the issues raised are actually simple and relatively inexpensive diy jobs.

IF you do decide to go ahead with the purchase then it might be worth tackling those first and then adopting a wait and see approach.

I would suggest that you systematically go through the report and address each issue raised, starting with the most obvious and the ones which are either free or low cost options.

Lowering soil levels is easy and will cost you nothing except some digging. Checking and cleaning guttering of debris is another no cost option. Just wait for a rainy day and see how effective the guttering is. Repairing mortar and rendering is easy - just google for instructions.

However, do make sure that you take proper safety precautions with safe ladder systems, don't skimp on this. You can hire a tower or ladder platform system. If you have somewhere to store them you could even buy one - they will be a good investment in the long term.

Unless they are monsters then pruning and cutting back trees is a diy job. Again Google is your friend. To avoid soil heave it might be better to cut them back in stages rather than all in one go. You will need to check that there are no tree preservation orders in force.

Removing vegetation such as ivy or creepers from walls will also help bricks to dry out properly.

If ventilation is an issue then put in extra air bricks. It sounds as if you definitely need some around that chimney breast and extra air bricks will allow a better air flow to the sub floor.

A novice diyer might struggle to fit air bricks but it's a doodle for a competent builder. It can be done in a day so shouldn't break the bank.

Flat roofs do need a fair degree of maintenance and repair but if the damp is mainly at ground level then the roof isn't likely to be the cause. A leaky flat roof will show obvious staining to the ceiling or upper part of the walls.

Once the problems have been addressed then you may need to think about how best to avoid the damp coming back. Fitting fans in the bathroom and kitchen might be useful, although you would of course need a qualified electrician for this.

I-Want-To-Move

I'm going to go against everyone else's advice and say I'd have a think about continuing with the purchase unless you have the funds to put the problem right. It might be cheap but it might be more expensive. Depends on how tight your budget is and how much you love the house as to whether you take it on.

Not one person on this site can advise you because you have to see the problem first hand to have any kind of idea of the problem.

From experience I can tell you that builders are not specialists in 'damp'. Some think they know what the problem is but actually don't so it is worth paying a bit more and getting a specialist in. It is amazing the difference in knowledge.

If you are new to DIY (which it sounds you are) I would not recommend you attempt to fix it yourself. Damp spreads, it can cost you more in the long run if you don't resolve the problem and if not fixed it will come back again so best get it sorted properly in the first instance by someone who knows what they are doing.

Moisture from bathrooms and kitchens DO NOT cause damp, they cause condensation - the two are completely different. Ask any specialist in damp and they will confirm this. Damp penetrates the wall, whereas condesation is moisture on the surface.