Who is responsible for a return?

AlanBelfast

Hi, please bear with me - I'll try to provide as much relevant info as possible in the hope of help.

We are a (VERY small - just me) company who bought a piece of machinery from England, delivered to Northern Ireland.

When it arrived (late and allsorts) the pallet it arrived on was placed 20ft from my door. I needed to get 4 strong people to carry it off the pallet and into the premises. The premises need no alteration to get it in, but it was VERY awkward.

Over the next week I discovered that it wasn't doing what it should do and got in touch with the manufacturer for more details. When they were slow to help I spoke with the supplier who said they would look into it, contact the manufacturer themselves and get back to me. I also discovered at this point that this was a 17 shelf product and not a 20 shelf product as requested, invoiced and paid for. They said they would give me a full refund & I said, "please put that in writing - if I can't get it to do what it should, you'll take it back - after I hear from the manufacturer".

There were literally weeks of "the manufacturer will contact you today or tomorrow", "they will contact you on Monday", "they will call you tomorrow", etc. but NOTHING.

Now it is confirmed it will not fully do what it should and they will return/refund.... but....

I have to 'put it on the pallet and secure it'. When I said that I neither have the pallet (it went on day 1 - couldn't keep it in my 'food prep' premises) nor would it fit out the door on a pallet, they gave further instructions: that the courier would bring a pallet and give me 20mins to put it on it.

I think it is ridiculous that I should have to get 4 men to help them with their machine and just wonder who's responsibility it actually is to take it out of my premises? They have been very 'assy' about the whole thing and it has cost me a lot of money and time for a number of reasons.

I can make some use of the machine, just not anything like the full use of it. Am considering just getting screwed over and keeping it if it is my responsibility to get it out and secured on a pallet.

I fully appreciate that it is not easy for them either, but they have been incredibly unhelpful.

Also, if it is their responsibility - what if it takes them years to collect it? All my money is tied up in it and it could therefore cause me a few problems. Is there a limit to how long they wait prior to refunding even though the limit for me holding onto it for them is 6 years?

Thanks for any help anyone can provide - they are looking for a decision quickly and I'd like to be as well informed as I can be.

Alan.

browneyedbazzi

In business to business contracts an awful lot relies on the content of your contract with the supplier - you can't rely on most 'consumer' rights because you are not a 'consumer' you are a business.

Does your contract make any mention of returns?

whitewing

Would the 20 shelf product do everything it should?

Or is the 17 shelf one the wrong size AND faulty?

I would have thought there would have been some scope to keep the one you have got without affecting its warranty, and having a partial refund.

AlanBelfast

browneyedbazzi wrote: »

In business to business contracts an awful lot relies on the content of your contract with the supplier - you can't rely on most 'consumer' rights because you are not a 'consumer' you are a business.

Does your contract make any mention of returns?

Not that I can see. There is plenty about when you receive them you have 24 hrs and they are deemed as 'accepted'.

Contract however now includes their undertaking in writing to provide a full return/refund as it is neither what was ordered nor doing what it should. (?)

globalds

So is this two issues ?

The equipment doesn't work as described.

and

The returns process should be arranged by the supplier ?

AlanBelfast

whitewing wrote: »

Would the 20 shelf product do everything it should?

Or is the 17 shelf one the wrong size AND faulty?

I would have thought there would have been some scope to keep the one you have got without affecting its warranty, and having a partial refund.

Here's more specific detail:
It is a product that can both chill dough and 'proof'/'prove' it (ready for use when you arrive in to work). It was to be a 20 shelf one.

The machine can be set at different humidity settings. When I set it at what I want, it periodically overshoots by up to 40ish% - often ruining my bakery products which are reasonably small and 'sensitive'. Therefore it can be used as a proofer (if I'm there to release excess humidity when the alarm goes off) but can't be left as the 'Retarder/Proofer' it is designed to be as it can't be trusted 'on it's own'. The proofer that it can be used as also has 3 shelves short (as it's a different design) on what I paid for.

They won't entertain a partial refund - which I'd prefer as I won't be left without one when they take it away and I wait for the money back for a new one - nor do I really want to do more business with them if I can help it.

AlanBelfast

globalds wrote: »

So is this two issues ?

The equipment doesn't work as described.

and

The returns process should be arranged by the supplier ?

More that because we can't agree (they say 'keep it at full price knowing it's not right or we'll give you a full refund, no compromise' - they gave a 3rd option of getting another one which I don't want to have to trust them as there have been about 12 significant errors to date) they are saying I and people I can muster now have to do all the work my end to get it back to them. I just wonder if this is right?

CoolHotCold

Lets ignore the law for the moment.


If they refuse to assist the only option you have is to take them to court, you can't force them to do what you think is right.


You've got two options. Take the offer of a full refund and make arrangements to get it sorted ready for transportation Or refuse, take them to court and see what happens.




I know which one will cost less hassle, but you can make your own mind up.

bris

They are offering a full refund and it's not unreasonable to have it ready for collection so whats the problem?

AlanBelfast

Bris & CoolHotCold,

It's only that if my role is 'keyholder' then I would opt for a refund as the end of a long, costly mistake of theirs. If I have to find and arrange the people to take it out at a time that suits them, but therefore taking responsibility for potential damage to it in the removal from my premises, responsibility for 'securing' it to a pallet for the journey back, etc. then that just makes me want to keep it as the less stressful option at the end of a very stressful, costly period.

So it probably sounds like me being lazy, but I don't really think I am, just at the end of my tether.

Thank you, good points I think.

Hintza

AlanBelfast wrote: »

So it probably sounds like me being lazy, but I don't really think I am, just at the end of my tether.

You need to remain strong and spend a bit of time getting ready, otherwise this could drag out for months and probably involve costly legal action. You need the refund asap so just jump through a few hoops, find a pallet and secure it on that pallet. Take lots of photos both of the machine inside and out and of how you packed it, just in case.