Solicitor as executor

ericonabike

After reading a number of posts here, and looking back over my own experiences as executor, I am starting to question my belief that using a solicitor as executor is expensive and unnecessary.

I am methodical, literate and well-used to dealing with officialdom, and so had little problem dealing with the affairs of my late parents, as well as helping my brother-in-law do the same for my late sister's estate. Indeed, it was useful therapy, as I felt I was doing something constructive. But it occurred to me at the time how there was effectively little or no oversight of what I was doing.

This has been brought home to me in a recent case where my wife was unexpectedly the beneficiary of a relative's will. The will was old, and other relatives were dismayed that it had not been changed. But the solicitor was legally bound to act upon a valid will, which she has done. If one of the other relatives had been sole executor, what would have prevented them from distributing the estate as they saw fit? My wife had no expectation of an inheritance from the estate, and certainly would not have asked to see the will.

So many other case studies in this forum also hinge on there not being a neutral party - a solicitor - responsible for the distribution of the estate. And so I have now come to the view that there is a very valid reason to appoint a solicitor as executor, even where the role could be taken on by a competent relative. Anyone else agree?

spacey2012

I do know someone who had a solicitor brought in as executor and they found over £18 k in due insurance money and over £6k of things on the table they had no legal duty to pay and did not pay, morally, yes they were owed, but solicitors don't do morals.

All in they were quids in to £24 k and for the £1800 the solicitor charged for the complex estate they were laughing all the way to the bank .

CaptainAmerica

Appoint a professional executor because even in the most harmonious of families all hell can break loose!!

RAS

I disagree.

Fortunately my parent had appointed two solcitors as individuals rather than as partners in their firm. Unfortunately the original will was still held by the firm.

The behaviour of the firm was so appalling that we had to appoint another solicitor to extract the will from them and the new solicitor was of the view we could report the old firm to the Law Society.

Despite the fact that they were not executors, they were determined to get the fees.

And in another case the cost of executing a simple estate was half the value of the state and twice the amount the LS considered reasonable.

fluffymuffy

I guess it really depends on circumstances.

My father had appointed his solicitor as executor and had left everything to my mother. It took 16 years for them to complete the complex? process of passing on some pensions and property. She still doesn't know what the value of the estate was and what fees the solicitors charged.

For that reason she made my sibling and I joint executors and 50/50 beneficiaries of her will.

I can see though that in circumstances where you might want to leave a surprising amount to an outsider (as in the OP) then an independent person might be best as executor. But even then I wouldn't trust a solicitor not to keep it on the boil for some years to line their own pockets.

madbadrob

There are other options people can use other than solicitors. For example there are companies out there now that will do this for you all be it I would never recommend any to do that. Then of course is a legacy is being left to a charity you could ask the charity to be executors. Some banks have the provisions but their costs can be as high as solicitors.

All in all if writing a will and you have family or friends who have the ability to deal with masses of paperwork and a good head with figures I would always suggest that is the best way to go.

Rob

ValHaller

The problems arise when the solicitor is appointed in the will. If living executors choose to appoint a solicitor to carry out the same work, it is not so much an issue

When a solicitor is appointed executor directly off a will, it leads to the solicitor being barely accountable to anyone, since he has no living client and he has to do something really gross for a court to contemplate taking him off the job. If non solicitor executors appoint the solicitor, then there is a fair chance for those executors to take the work away if it is not being done correctly.

M.E.

The surprise appointment of a Solicitor as Executor in my late mother's will a month before she died, plus family acrimony, plus High Court case instigated by that Solicitor resulted in £80,000 taken from the residue.
He was told by the Master before the court case to back off. He didn't, he carried on, taking the family to court to retain Executorship. He got the executorship but was NOT awarded costs against 4 of the 5 children, because of things he failed to do whilst writing the will, including how he became Executor. He apparently just wrote it in and Mum signed the will, he admitted he couldn't remember if he was actually asked by Mum to be Executor!!! . By getting the Executorship but failing to be awarded costs from the court case, he took " revenge" on the vexacious 5th child by taking all but £10 from the residue, which had surprisingly been left to child 5.
NEVER HAVE A SOLICITOR AS EXECUTOR

troubleinparadise

My mum was persuaded by a solicitor (where the will was held) to have him execute my father's will, although she and two other people were named as executors.

The other two executors never knew of this until many years later.

And he charged over £4000 to execute a very simple will which left everything to my mother, with a few shares that needed to be sold. This took slightly more than two years to complete.

Quite how he achieved that cost, and how he was instructed without having to inform the other executors I have no idea. Probate wasn't needed (all assets with the exception of the tiny shareholding were in joint names) and the estate, such as it was, was very small in value. The shares were worth about £200.

But he obviously preyed on the vulnerability of a grieving widow, for which he cannot be forgiven....

So I'm afraid I cannot personally recommend using a solicitor as an executor.

madbadrob

troubleinparadise wrote: »

And he charged over £4000 to execute a very simple will which left everything to my mother, with a few shares that needed to be sold. This took slightly more than two years to complete.

Quite how he achieved that cost, and how he was instructed without having to inform the other executors I have no idea. Probate wasn't needed (all assets with the exception of the tiny shareholding were in joint names) and the estate, such as it was, was very small in value. The shares were worth about £200.

Actually because there were shares probate was required.

What I dont understand is why people accept these charges without asking for a breakdown of how they were reached and then why they dont if they consider them disproportionate they dont complain the the relevant authority. With the case above that would have been my first port of call because he would have legally been required to have all the executors agree to it.

Rob

troubleinparadise

madbadrob wrote: »

Actually because there were shares probate was required.

What I dont understand is why people accept these charges without asking for a breakdown of how they were reached and then why they dont if they consider them disproportionate they dont complain the the relevant authority. With the case above that would have been my first port of call because he would have legally been required to have all the executors agree to it.

Rob

Thanks for explaining that - all this happened 10 years before it was discovered after my mother's death.

She accepted the charges and the guidance of the solicitor involved, and whilst I felt there were "some explanations (!)" due, it wasn't pursued as it came at a time of bereavement and energies weren't available to follow up on it - but I agree that it should have been addressed.

I was surprised at how much was done, and allowed to be done, without following the guidelines and proper processes that I have learned about latterly.

As a result however, I do my own research and don't just trust that what I'm told is correct.

And did my mother's probate and IHT returns myself!